Sanyo transistors
More transistor information.
http://www.semic.sanyo.co.jp/solution/tr_j/power_transistors.html
H.H.
More transistor information.
http://www.semic.sanyo.co.jp/solution/tr_j/power_transistors.html
H.H.
Sanyo audio transistors
To find the PDF file in english
http://service.semic.sanyo.co.jp/semi/menu_ds_e.asp
I just know I am going to hear about this one......
H.H.
To find the PDF file in english
http://service.semic.sanyo.co.jp/semi/menu_ds_e.asp
I just know I am going to hear about this one......
H.H.
why hear about this one?
Harry,
why do you think you are gonna hear about this one?
I followed up the transistors suggested in the Japanese selection guide. The high power devices are nothing special, i.e. the Sanken LAPT devices are better in terms of bandwidth and gain linearity. The drivers are about the same I found in my spree into video trannies...
If you are still interested in the Toshiba duals (with the caveats to be outlined in the next post), I can order some more & will most likely be in the US in May & could stick them in the next letterbox.
Greetings,
Eric
Harry,
why do you think you are gonna hear about this one?
I followed up the transistors suggested in the Japanese selection guide. The high power devices are nothing special, i.e. the Sanken LAPT devices are better in terms of bandwidth and gain linearity. The drivers are about the same I found in my spree into video trannies...
If you are still interested in the Toshiba duals (with the caveats to be outlined in the next post), I can order some more & will most likely be in the US in May & could stick them in the next letterbox.
Greetings,
Eric
shipment from Reichelt arrived
got the parcel today. Sometimes Reichelt really sucks. They don't state the current gain class for their Japanese trannies, but so far everything has been in the same class, always middle or high.
Well now I have a dozen 2SA1538 in class E (3 out of 4) and a dozen 2SC3953 in class C (1 out of 4). Could use them as cascodes but not really as complementary VAS stages -- there is just no way to match them (all were pretty constants, i.e. gain 52-56 or 220-250). Also, the 2SC3953 don't look like Sanyo usually look. The have a marking by SEC. Didn't know there were second sources....
Similarly, the 2SA1349 are from class BL, the 2SC3381 are GR. Actual gains are not too bad: 480 vs. 335 .
Aren't JFETs sensitive to ESD? While the J310s came in aluminum wrapping, the 2SK389/J309 came without.
got the parcel today. Sometimes Reichelt really sucks. They don't state the current gain class for their Japanese trannies, but so far everything has been in the same class, always middle or high.
Well now I have a dozen 2SA1538 in class E (3 out of 4) and a dozen 2SC3953 in class C (1 out of 4). Could use them as cascodes but not really as complementary VAS stages -- there is just no way to match them (all were pretty constants, i.e. gain 52-56 or 220-250). Also, the 2SC3953 don't look like Sanyo usually look. The have a marking by SEC. Didn't know there were second sources....
Similarly, the 2SA1349 are from class BL, the 2SC3381 are GR. Actual gains are not too bad: 480 vs. 335 .
Aren't JFETs sensitive to ESD? While the J310s came in aluminum wrapping, the 2SK389/J309 came without.
Hear about this one
I meant that I would get chewed out the confusion on Sanyo PDF files. I and or Jocko have, or can get, most any of the Toshiba or Sanyo transistors we have been discussing but thanks for the offer. I even have a stash of 2SK147s and several Violet bias group Toshiba fets. Jocko and I collect transistors like some people hoard fine wines. I also have a pretty good collection of audio grade caps and resistors. It pays to be prepared.
H.H.
I meant that I would get chewed out the confusion on Sanyo PDF files. I and or Jocko have, or can get, most any of the Toshiba or Sanyo transistors we have been discussing but thanks for the offer. I even have a stash of 2SK147s and several Violet bias group Toshiba fets. Jocko and I collect transistors like some people hoard fine wines. I also have a pretty good collection of audio grade caps and resistors. It pays to be prepared.
H.H.
Static sensitive
Everything is static sensistive to a degree but I have stored Jfets in with out anti static precautions with out damaging them so you are probably OK. Feel free to send me whatever you like when in the US as long as is not antrax power which makes the post office real jumpy.
H.H.
Everything is static sensistive to a degree but I have stored Jfets in with out anti static precautions with out damaging them so you are probably OK. Feel free to send me whatever you like when in the US as long as is not antrax power which makes the post office real jumpy.
H.H.
"It pays to be prepared."
I am familiar with that. Tend to order extra things while placing the order for things acutely needed - just in case. Also, tend to buy surplus that is really a good deal except that most of it just sits there without getting used, except in arguments, by she who must be obeyed (who doesn't see that she also collects useless stuff, just happens to be other things...).
Anyway, I like collecting rare wines better. Wine tastes better than trannies. Also, gratification is more instant, i.e. after handling a cork-pull instead of soldering iron, scope, .....
On the other hand, wine is beginning to take up more space than electronics stuff.
Was under the impression you had problems laying your fingers on more Toshiba duals. But if you have your sources, that should just be easier.
Doesn't anybody want to comment on SEC second sourcing Sanyo?
Cheers!
Eric
I am familiar with that. Tend to order extra things while placing the order for things acutely needed - just in case. Also, tend to buy surplus that is really a good deal except that most of it just sits there without getting used, except in arguments, by she who must be obeyed (who doesn't see that she also collects useless stuff, just happens to be other things...).
Anyway, I like collecting rare wines better. Wine tastes better than trannies. Also, gratification is more instant, i.e. after handling a cork-pull instead of soldering iron, scope, .....
On the other hand, wine is beginning to take up more space than electronics stuff.
Was under the impression you had problems laying your fingers on more Toshiba duals. But if you have your sources, that should just be easier.
Doesn't anybody want to comment on SEC second sourcing Sanyo?
Cheers!
Eric
what is WEC?
While I have seen SEC stamped on RAM chips, I have no idea who they are or if they have a web site (various semiconductor link pages drew a blank there).
Turns out the 2SC2837 (Sanken LAPT) Reichelt shipped me were also second sources. They are marked WEC, and their gain is low, just in spec. Who is WEC???
While I have seen SEC stamped on RAM chips, I have no idea who they are or if they have a web site (various semiconductor link pages drew a blank there).
Turns out the 2SC2837 (Sanken LAPT) Reichelt shipped me were also second sources. They are marked WEC, and their gain is low, just in spec. Who is WEC???
I know that http://www.mospec.com.tw is second source on the 2SA1186/2SC2837..
But i do not know if it is there marking.
Sonny
But i do not know if it is there marking.
Sonny
second sources!
Hi Sonny,
this link is great! Other Mospec parts that have photos on their web pages have either MOSSPEC printed on them or their logo, neither of which looks even remotely like SEC or WEC printed in plain ordinary capitals. I would appreciate any hint as to who they are.
It was educating to look at their data sheets:
Compare 2SC2837 Sanken LAPT vs. Mospec 2SC2837:
f_T: 70 Mhz typ. vs. 10 min.
f_T-plot: typical, min, max vs. nothing
h_fe 50 min (with gain groups, but only on newer parts) vs. 30 min with no grouping
C_OB 60 pF typ vs. not specified
typical h_FE vs. I_C plots at 4 V: Mospec device begins to droop much earlier, no better than other maker's single emitter devices
typical I_C vs. V_CE: Mosspec looks slightly better but curves look like they were drawn with some artistic freedom
This is definitely an inferior part! Wonder why they dare sell that with the same part number.
Eric
Hi Sonny,
this link is great! Other Mospec parts that have photos on their web pages have either MOSSPEC printed on them or their logo, neither of which looks even remotely like SEC or WEC printed in plain ordinary capitals. I would appreciate any hint as to who they are.
It was educating to look at their data sheets:
Compare 2SC2837 Sanken LAPT vs. Mospec 2SC2837:
f_T: 70 Mhz typ. vs. 10 min.
f_T-plot: typical, min, max vs. nothing
h_fe 50 min (with gain groups, but only on newer parts) vs. 30 min with no grouping
C_OB 60 pF typ vs. not specified
typical h_FE vs. I_C plots at 4 V: Mospec device begins to droop much earlier, no better than other maker's single emitter devices
typical I_C vs. V_CE: Mosspec looks slightly better but curves look like they were drawn with some artistic freedom
This is definitely an inferior part! Wonder why they dare sell that with the same part number.
Eric
SA1349/SC2281
While I appreciate all the offers of help, I do not need anymore of these transistors. Sorry for another of my poor attempts at humor. I know how serious we take or semiconductors.
My eyes may be playing tricks on me, but are those devices arranged in such a manner as to perform the old "Italian salute"?
Jocko
H.H.
While I appreciate all the offers of help, I do not need anymore of these transistors. Sorry for another of my poor attempts at humor. I know how serious we take or semiconductors.
My eyes may be playing tricks on me, but are those devices arranged in such a manner as to perform the old "Italian salute"?
Jocko
H.H.
Attachments
![dual[1].jpg](/community/data/attachments/3/3669-5980f3c7ddb1e5e6a61a6aa3a344a2ba.jpg)
MJL3281A/MJL1302A
Still haven't found out about WEC except that the collector base capacitance seems to be 1.5x higher than in original Sanken parts I still had sitting in my shoebox.
I kind of avoided Toshiba 2SC3281/2SA1302 in the past, because in terms of f_T, beta linearity and output capacitance they were inferior to Sanken parts with similar power/current rating (even more so when compared to parts with slightly lower rating).
It turns out that this time, the second source, OnSemi, actually has a better data sheet (whether the parts are really better, I will find out when they have arrived).
f_T is specified at 30 MHz typ. for both parts (the 1302 only is specified at 25 MHz, even if the typical curve seems to show 28 MHz) but the typical curves show 50 and 40 MHz at 1 A, 5 V and even slightly more at higher current and voltage. Output capacitance is specified with a maximum instead of a typical value. Typical curves show slighly higher capacitance for PNP and lower for NPN than Toshiba typical values given in the table. Current gain lower and upper limits are slightly higher, but there are no gain classes as offered by Toshiba. Typical gain linearity plots look better than those for the Toshiba parts & in addition 20 V curves are given. I_C (V_CE) are not comparable because OnSemi plot only base currents in excess of 0.5A. And OnSemi offers "official" spice models
Eric
Still haven't found out about WEC except that the collector base capacitance seems to be 1.5x higher than in original Sanken parts I still had sitting in my shoebox.
I kind of avoided Toshiba 2SC3281/2SA1302 in the past, because in terms of f_T, beta linearity and output capacitance they were inferior to Sanken parts with similar power/current rating (even more so when compared to parts with slightly lower rating).
It turns out that this time, the second source, OnSemi, actually has a better data sheet (whether the parts are really better, I will find out when they have arrived).
f_T is specified at 30 MHz typ. for both parts (the 1302 only is specified at 25 MHz, even if the typical curve seems to show 28 MHz) but the typical curves show 50 and 40 MHz at 1 A, 5 V and even slightly more at higher current and voltage. Output capacitance is specified with a maximum instead of a typical value. Typical curves show slighly higher capacitance for PNP and lower for NPN than Toshiba typical values given in the table. Current gain lower and upper limits are slightly higher, but there are no gain classes as offered by Toshiba. Typical gain linearity plots look better than those for the Toshiba parts & in addition 20 V curves are given. I_C (V_CE) are not comparable because OnSemi plot only base currents in excess of 0.5A. And OnSemi offers "official" spice models
Eric
On Semi MJL1302/3281A capacitance vs. Sanken
I have now received a batch of those transitors. DC current gain at less than 1 mA of collector current is 80-120, i.e already high and shows very little fluctuation (that is probably why there are no gain classes).
The collector base capacitance at 200 mV AC with no DC bias is 1780/1250 pF (all specimen identical to less than 5 pF). This value is consistent with the typical capacitance plot that is given for 1-10 V of bias which I simply extrapolated to 0 V. I have not checked my Toshiba parts which are still buried somewhere. Toshiba gives no curves, but typical values at 10 V are consistent with On Semi curves as explained earlier.
Now comes the big difference:
Original Sankens measure at 290 to 400 pF for the 2SA1186 and 250 - 280 pF for the 2SC2837 with the same tester which is a big difference considering their current rating is only slightly lower. Even if f_T is only slightly higher than for the Toshiba/OnSemi parts, the Sankens will present less of a nonlinear load to the drivers and they should be less prone to oscillations.
Cheers,
Eric
I have now received a batch of those transitors. DC current gain at less than 1 mA of collector current is 80-120, i.e already high and shows very little fluctuation (that is probably why there are no gain classes).
The collector base capacitance at 200 mV AC with no DC bias is 1780/1250 pF (all specimen identical to less than 5 pF). This value is consistent with the typical capacitance plot that is given for 1-10 V of bias which I simply extrapolated to 0 V. I have not checked my Toshiba parts which are still buried somewhere. Toshiba gives no curves, but typical values at 10 V are consistent with On Semi curves as explained earlier.
Now comes the big difference:
Original Sankens measure at 290 to 400 pF for the 2SA1186 and 250 - 280 pF for the 2SC2837 with the same tester which is a big difference considering their current rating is only slightly lower. Even if f_T is only slightly higher than for the Toshiba/OnSemi parts, the Sankens will present less of a nonlinear load to the drivers and they should be less prone to oscillations.
Cheers,
Eric
So this is where that thread got to.
Samsung has changed their symbol a few times , the company has also been split into various bits and sold off (Fairchild accuired Samsungs power semiconductor group I think?)
The back of my Samsung monitor manufactured in 1998 has "(SEC)" on the back as well as the Samsung name in an ellipse, so Samsung is still my best guess.
Regards
James
Samsung has changed their symbol a few times , the company has also been split into various bits and sold off (Fairchild accuired Samsungs power semiconductor group I think?)
The back of my Samsung monitor manufactured in 1998 has "(SEC)" on the back as well as the Samsung name in an ellipse, so Samsung is still my best guess.
Regards
James
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