Why do phono sockets sound different?
In high resolution systems, the type of phono sockets produces slightly different sonic characters. Kimber, Tiffany, Vampire, and other sockets produce subtle differeneces in terms of treble and bass qualities.
Why is this? Contact properties, impedance characteristics? The effect is smller than capacitors or resistors but is nevertheless there.
In high resolution systems, the type of phono sockets produces slightly different sonic characters. Kimber, Tiffany, Vampire, and other sockets produce subtle differeneces in terms of treble and bass qualities.
Why is this? Contact properties, impedance characteristics? The effect is smller than capacitors or resistors but is nevertheless there.
Hi,
I doubt anyone could tell a single set apart in any test but if you use the same brand throughout your system, then yes, I think it could be possible.
Then again who cares about blind tests anyway?
I trust my own ears and those of friends I know to have sharp hearing as well.
For two decades we all seem to agree on issues where most people still seem to be in the dark.
The most important task for any connector is good contact, secondary is the use of good sounding materials.
RCAs are notoriously bad connectors to start with but that doesn't mean there can't be any sonic difference between one or other brand.
Good examples of decent sound are Cardas, Kimber and a few lesser known brands.
The best ones are of course the ones you don't hear at all...
Cheers,
I doubt anyone could tell a single set apart in any test but if you use the same brand throughout your system, then yes, I think it could be possible.
Then again who cares about blind tests anyway?
I trust my own ears and those of friends I know to have sharp hearing as well.
For two decades we all seem to agree on issues where most people still seem to be in the dark.
The most important task for any connector is good contact, secondary is the use of good sounding materials.
RCAs are notoriously bad connectors to start with but that doesn't mean there can't be any sonic difference between one or other brand.
Good examples of decent sound are Cardas, Kimber and a few lesser known brands.
The best ones are of course the ones you don't hear at all...
Cheers,
Just to add my 10p's worth........
There are differences, but as usual the diffrences between good phono's
(and cables) are minor compared to cheap phono's (and cable).
A major influence unsuprisingly are the phono sockets the plugs
are going to be used with, and the phono sockets method of
coupling to the circuitry.
A compromised socket may show more differences with different
plugs (and cables), than a better arrangement.
If you have a bad sounding cable there is always a good engineering reason for it.
A friends system always sounded harsh. After he eulogised about
a new CD player cable he'd bought I had a look at the Chord CD
cable he had be using.
So-so cable and nice plugs. (And alledgedly very good sounding reputation)
But the earth connections via a clamping collet (not soldered)
were literally turning green, the source of the harshness.
Rewiring the plugs with new cable showed soldering the earth
was possible, but impractical in a production situation.
sreten.
There are differences, but as usual the diffrences between good phono's
(and cables) are minor compared to cheap phono's (and cable).
A major influence unsuprisingly are the phono sockets the plugs
are going to be used with, and the phono sockets method of
coupling to the circuitry.
A compromised socket may show more differences with different
plugs (and cables), than a better arrangement.
If you have a bad sounding cable there is always a good engineering reason for it.
A friends system always sounded harsh. After he eulogised about
a new CD player cable he'd bought I had a look at the Chord CD
cable he had be using.
So-so cable and nice plugs. (And alledgedly very good sounding reputation)
But the earth connections via a clamping collet (not soldered)
were literally turning green, the source of the harshness.
Rewiring the plugs with new cable showed soldering the earth
was possible, but impractical in a production situation.
sreten.
-------------------------------------------------------sobazz said:I'd be impressed, if you can pick out different pairs of "proper'" phono sockets in a blind test....
I probably can't. But repeated sighted insertions do give different sonic characters.
Blind tests reduce confidence in identification; you are worried about being able to tell the difference. Long termm listening and satisfaction seem to me the key.
fmak, yes but psycology is a factor I trust more than peoples ability to tell wether one part is better than another based on subjective impressions, where no blind tests and statistic are involved. I once heard one say in here, that statistics really don't matter here, since one person able to tell the difference proves that the difference might exist. I don't buy that one. How do you eliminate psychology if not trough blind test?
When someone on this board claims to here a difference between to types of polypropylene capacitors with almost the same specs, I dare be critical. This is the old cable discussion. And I suppose that we might just as well face it: the entire audio fanatics crowd is split between metaphysics and physics. I suppose that's the difference between religous people and atheist (what is it called in english?) too. Nothing wrong with that.
If the sockets make proper contact, the material used has proper electrical specs and the solderings are done well, I would rather focus on circuit design and choice of components (I'm not nessescarily talking about expensive exotic components) and the electrical specs of the cables used. I suppose we do agree, that if the socket make proper contact (both to the connector and to ground) and the material has proper characteristics there will be no difference whatsoever between different sockets!
When someone on this board claims to here a difference between to types of polypropylene capacitors with almost the same specs, I dare be critical. This is the old cable discussion. And I suppose that we might just as well face it: the entire audio fanatics crowd is split between metaphysics and physics. I suppose that's the difference between religous people and atheist (what is it called in english?) too. Nothing wrong with that.
If the sockets make proper contact, the material used has proper electrical specs and the solderings are done well, I would rather focus on circuit design and choice of components (I'm not nessescarily talking about expensive exotic components) and the electrical specs of the cables used. I suppose we do agree, that if the socket make proper contact (both to the connector and to ground) and the material has proper characteristics there will be no difference whatsoever between different sockets!
Us british (not keen on english) are also atheists, if so inclined.
Simply put, sonic differences do occur because the engineering
models used are too simplistic, factors having an engineering
basis are simply ignored, and so it is deemed to be perfect.
What I can't do with is people offering ludicrous explanations
for effects than are rooted in subtle engineering concepts.
sreten.
Simply put, sonic differences do occur because the engineering
models used are too simplistic, factors having an engineering
basis are simply ignored, and so it is deemed to be perfect.
What I can't do with is people offering ludicrous explanations
for effects than are rooted in subtle engineering concepts.
sreten.
sobazz said:
I hate to make this remark, but what you are doing here is thread jacking. The thread specifically asks: "Why do phono sockets sound different?", so everybody posting should concentrate on that question and possible answers.
If you want to argue if they really sound different, why don't you start another thread which will say: "Do phono sockets sound different?" Did you notice that I omitted the word: "WHY" ?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28176
I'm intervening, as recently there were complains regarding thread jacking and I think this is what actually takes place here as well.
Peter Daniel
diyAudio Moderator
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------I find I am increasingly putting different makes of phonos in the input section of preamps. This way I can 'tailor' the sound.Peter Daniel said:
I quite like Kimbers as opposed to Tiffanys with the vacuum contact. Don't like WBTs much for operational as well as sonic reasons.
If the sockets make proper contact, the material used has proper electrical specs and the solderings are done well, I would rather focus on circuit design and choice of components (I'm not nessescarily talking about expensive exotic components) and the electrical specs of the cables used. I suppose we do agree, that if the socket make proper contact (both to the connector and to ground) and the material has proper characteristics there will be no difference whatsoever between different sockets! [/B][/QUOTE]
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You sound like my electrical/electronics engineering colleagues - simplistic models override everything else.
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You sound like my electrical/electronics engineering colleagues - simplistic models override everything else.
Peter, I'm sorry that you got this impression of my posts. I will avoid discussing my views in this thread from now on.
But if you really want to get into detail about the subject line, you should have pointet out, that the proper title for this thread would have been "Why COULD phone sockets sound different?". Such a thread could be most interesting, but by presuming that the difference actually exists you cannot avoid comments from people who actually don't believe in magic power cords etc.
Regarding thread jacking... if my posts were an example of actually thread jacking, you should have a full time job moderating this board, and never have the time to do anything else. Your understanding of thread jacking is borderline is this case. Maybe just because I interfered with your personal views?
But if you really want to get into detail about the subject line, you should have pointet out, that the proper title for this thread would have been "Why COULD phone sockets sound different?". Such a thread could be most interesting, but by presuming that the difference actually exists you cannot avoid comments from people who actually don't believe in magic power cords etc.
Regarding thread jacking... if my posts were an example of actually thread jacking, you should have a full time job moderating this board, and never have the time to do anything else. Your understanding of thread jacking is borderline is this case. Maybe just because I interfered with your personal views?
sobazz said:
Regarding thread jacking... if my posts were an example of actually thread jacking, you should have a full time job moderating this board, and never have the time to do anything else. Your understanding of thread jacking is borderline is this case. Maybe just because I interfered with your personal views?
I don't have personal views on this, I just accept the possibility that they may sound different.
Also, the thread was started by a person who perceives the difference and in some ways you should respect that and you should also respect the right of that person to get his answer. Your coming out with totally different opinion doesn't do any good to him and reduces his chances of getting an answer he's looking for (which is the actual reason he opened this thread).
I already started another thread, for people who want to know IF phono sockets COULD sound different, so everybody should be happy: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28176
I can't moderate everyhting, but I felt that I could make a good example how moderators can help members to have freedom in their views and opinions, without others jumping at them and critisizing (or questioning) their observations.
The forum is dedicated to audio fanatics (I didn't come up with that, so don't jump at me for saying this) and claiming perceived dfference in RCA jacks sound, pretty much qualifies as fanatism in my book. Would you like to argue about that too?
PS: To make you feel better about the whole thing, I added "to me" in the thread tiltle. This should clear any further doubts.
Peter Daniel said:
I don't have personal views on this, I just accept the possibility that they may sound different.
The forum is dedicated to audio fanatics (I didn't come up with that, so don't jump at me for saying this) and claiming perceived dfference in RCA jacks sound, pretty much qualifies as fanatism in my book. Would you like to argue about that too?
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Peter
I don't regard myself as an audio fanatic. The fact that people go for Cardas etc means that there must be a perceived difference; otherwise why bother.
Why don't you do one of your tests and post your finding; it's easy enough!
fmak said:
I don't regard myself as an audio fanatic. The fact that people go for Cardas etc means that there must be a perceived difference; otherwise why bother.
Why don't you do one of your tests and post your finding; it's easy enough!
Maybe you don't, but from what I see here, you are one of the more extreme audio researchers, and I mean it in a good way. I always look forward to that type of observations and comments, as it saves me the time to do my own research. But I'll do my test too.
The other good example (of true fanatism this time) might be a guy who makes his own carbon and silver wire resistors.
PS: Performing a good balancing act, to keep everybody happy, is obviously not an easy task.
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