[INDIA] Chassis, knobs, PCB makers - Page 2 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Design & Build > Parts

Parts Where to get, and how to make the best bits. PCB's, caps, transformers, etc.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 13th February 2004, 07:21 AM   #11
gjo is offline gjo  India
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Bangalore, India
Tarun

Interesting posts, I esp liked the one about Harry. No question about stuff here being cost effective compared to what we have to pay from abroad.(That's the reason why all the jobs are coming here anyway, these days)

Yesterday I was checking a US tube preamp kits parts list, and I realised that this could be easily cloned here for a fraction of $ price. You either need to have to know how to build such gear or the sources or the patience to get the best (and least cost vendors) though. And sometime the least cost and best vendors give you hell and test your patience to the hilt because they dont believe in your time table!

George
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2004, 10:06 AM   #12
tcpip is offline tcpip  India
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Mumbai, India
Quote:
Originally posted by gjo
Interesting posts, I esp liked the one about Harry...
Yes, Harry Uncle was an experience. It's only when you sit and chat with such people that you get to see the layers and layers of stories behind the facts. Harry was telling me how he went to the AV expo at Land's End last year with his wife ("... You didn't go to it? Naa, not the first one, that was bakwaas... the second one. Man! That was excellent!...") And when he went there, he found that as he walked down the passage, probably fifty percent of the exhibitors knew him by face! People to his left and right would greet him, and say "Hello, Mr.Walecha. How are you Mr.Walecha?" And he said, almost visibly swelling with satisfaction, "When you get that kind of treatment, that kind of warmth (his words), from everyone, then you really feel you have achieved something in life. Paisa kitna kamaaya woh to maloom nahin, but you feel that you've done something worthwhile." And sitting in his little cabin in a gala in an industrial estate, I was hearing his story.

These are the moments which I guess I'll remember after the music has gone...

Tarun
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2004, 11:29 AM   #13
mskeete is offline mskeete  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: London
Hi Tarun
Can you provide some contact details for these companies
I'm interested in having custom boxes made and shiped to the UK

Mark
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2004, 11:53 AM   #14
diyAudio Member
 
ashok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 3RS
Default Material costing .

Quote :

.................Yesterday I was checking a US tube preamp kits parts list, and I realised that this could be easily cloned here for a fraction of $ price.................

I should caution guys that material costing does not reflect how much it costs to make a unit in a factory. It costs a lot of money to set up a factory and then running costs plus advertising and a host of other expenses . All this put to gether will be the final cost to build n number of units. You will find that in small units the cost of materials will only be a small percentage of the total expenses that the manufacturer has. And we haven't talked about shipping !

As a DIY'er you will not see the other expenses ( fuel , time, phone calls,interest rates etc ) and the unit will apparently be cheap. Making one unit is easy. Making 100 that conform to specs is not so easy. Have you any idea how much it means in terms of money for returned faulty parts ? I handled international 24x7 service problems . It can kill your business , especially in India!
Yes we can make it cheaper here. Will you also accept a 'low' compensation for your time ? The whole topic of making it "cheap" commercially is complicated and not as simple as the cost of raw materials. You might also realise that material costing is lower in other parts of the world than India. We are not talking of retail over the counter prices.
Would you say that your time is cheaper than people in other parts of the world. I would not. I would make every effort to be on par with people of equal capability in other parts of the world.
Why should you earn less ??

India may be cheap for some things . In my honest opinion many people are highly underpaid in India . This is dishonest , it is our heritage and it is why we have so many poor people. It is changing ......very slowly . We can't be 'bakaras' for ever.
Cheers.
__________________
AM
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2004, 12:08 PM   #15
gjo is offline gjo  India
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Bangalore, India
Ashok

You are right.

My comments were not meant in that context-it was in the context of feeling that DIYers here in India had to get a lot of resources from abroad, where these were low cost. In the US for example, scratch building an amp is a very common thing-even a fairly high wattage tube amp-this is something that is not easy here. Also in absolute terms they can afford to spend money on such hobbies in a way that we cannot..

I dont advocate applying direct labour cost to our goods and services, no way!

Have a great weekend..

George
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th February 2004, 01:36 AM   #16
tcpip is offline tcpip  India
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Mumbai, India
Quote:
Originally posted by mskeete
Can you provide some contact details for these companies
I'm interested in having custom boxes made and shiped to the UK
Sure. I presume you want Dinrack's address, since you've mentioned only boxes. I'll reply tomorrow, since I seem to have kept that address in office.

However, if you don't mind, I'm curious to know why you want to pick up such items from India. Why not the US, which has large reputed box makers who have supplied excellent boxes to DIYers in the past, and who have a detailed printed catalog much more well-prepared than Dinrack? The price Dinrack charged me, converted to USD, is roughly the same as what Par-Metal or Lansing would charge. And the finish of a Dinrack box (other than the brushed-finish front panel) is probably no better than theirs. Add to that all the difficulties of dealing with a supplier who, while he is very honest and businesslike, is unaccustomed to handling long-distance customers for int'l business.

I don't want to scare you off Dinrack... I'd do business with them even if I was in the US. I just was curious.

Tarun
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th February 2004, 01:59 AM   #17
tcpip is offline tcpip  India
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Mumbai, India
Default PCB making

It appears that getting a PCB made involves two steps (in terms of dealing with two different parties, in my case). The first step is getting "films" made. These are reusable prints of the component side, track side, etc, done on very high resolution printers/plotters, generating very sharp edged lines (i.e. thin tracks don't smudge). The second step is supplying these films and a drill data file to a workshop which actually makes these PCBs.

I've found two reputed parties to do these two jobs in Andheri. I've submitted one small PCB layout (the preamp with tone controls which I've discussed in another thread) to the film-maker, who will courier the films to the PCB maker on Monday morning. I'm getting two copies of one PCB made. The film-making shop has half a dozen different CAD packages with them (all pirated, I'm sure), and they were willing to accept my .brd file from Eagle. But they backed off when they heard I'm using Eagle 4.11; they have v4.09, I think. So they asked for Gerber files instead.

The PCB making shop is headed by a certain Mr.Subramaniam, who is a graduate from IIT Madras, 1968. (He said he was precisely 20 years senior to me.) He routinely does a lot of work for large companies in Bombay, it appears. However, he is also willing to do small quantities; he says he does a lot of "R&D PCBs", i.e. ones and twos. I had a nice chat with him.

He says his pricing for small quantities of small PCBs is quite high, and he does not apply a per-sqcm rate for them, because he says his one-time costs are disproportionate. He assured me that if I give him a larger order, his rates will be very competitive. For my PCBs (about 8cm by 10cm each, single sided FR4, with solder mask and legend printing), he said that he'll charge something like Rs.250 for the pair. I got the impression that he'd have charged almost the same amount if I'd asked for three. (I'm spending another Rs.250 or so for the films, by the way, so please factor that in when you do your own math. And films are a one-time cost; I was assured that I could re-used them for "aat-duss saal.")

I asked him whether he can do a PCB for me when I just have the track side layout in a bromide, no CAD datafiles. He said that for single-sided PCBs, it's not a problem, provided that the bromide shows the pads with open holes. (By default, I found that the Gerber plots generated from Eagle have filled-in pads, so you can't really see where the holes will come. This won't do for working from bromides.) So I asked him, does he need the drill file in my case, since this prototype order is single-sided? He said no, it's easy enough to do without. Of course, he first asked me what type of component density there was, how many holes there were, etc. I guess he would need the CNC drill file if I had some super-complex digital circuit sort of thing. For double-sided PCBs, he said that even for simple jobs, he would like a drill file.

I asked him about thicker copper. He said that for single-sided PCBs, he can give me boards on 1-ounce or 2-ounce copper. (Thicker copper layers are better for power amps, and most power amps we DIY chaps do are single-sided anyway.) It was nice to know that I was dealing with someone who was familiar with 1-ounce and 2-ounce and such terms.

This conversation has set me thinking. I've played around with my CAM processor section on the Eagle package a bit, and I've discovered that Eagle can output photoplotter data to different printer control languages, one of them being Postscript; It doesn't always have to be Gerber format. If I generate PS, I can see it on my screen using ghostview, and can print it on any ordinary printer. (In fact, I think I saw support for even HP Laserjet on Eagle; that should cover most non-Postscript laser printers.) Therefore, these "films" that the first phase generates can probably be generated by me at office on the office laser printer, by printing on Garware sheets. (I've printed OHP transparencies on Garware sheets on laser printer before. I don't know what the technically correct name for those thick transparent sheets is; here the shops usually know them as "Garware sheets" probably because Garware makes them or used to.) In that case, I guess I don't need the first workshop at all; I can just go straight to PCB making, even for more hi-tech stuff like double sided PCBs.

And this approach should be replicable by any of you provided your CAD software has a photoplotter driver which can generate PS files. And in case you don't have a printer which can print on Garware sheets, just take a printout on paper and ask Visha to make a bromide out of it using photo methods. The've done that for me many times before, as a precursor to making a PCB.

My PCBs should reach me in a week; I'll keep you guys posted. (Both Image, the film-maker, and Mr.Subramaniam, are willing to deliver stuff by courier, and will accept full payment on delivery. And Image is couriering my films to Mr.Subramaniam's workshop; I haven't paid anyone yet.) I'm finally hoping that I will be able to break out of the Visha-quality PCBs and get clean, sharp tracks, and take tracks between legs of DIP ICs without having to sit down with a knife and manually cut the shorts. Oh joy, oh glee.

Once I get good results with my PCB, I'll ask Mr.Subramaniam to make Angshu's phono PCB.

Tarun

PS: While writing this post, I realised I'll probably have to generate the drill file for this particular PCB, even though it's single-sided. This is because Image will generate films from my Gerber plots, which have filled-in pads. Ouch. I better get to work on that one.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th February 2004, 04:29 AM   #18
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Nevermind
Send a message via Yahoo to peterpan73
Default About an Elektor CNC PCB Drilling Project

Hello Tarun, everybody,

As always, I'm looking for information and this time its on an article, or rather a series of articles from Elektor about a CNC PCB Drill machine for the hobbyist. I contacted Century Publications )Elektor India licencees) for the issues with the Project details but apparently they have sold out copies of the issues containing these articles.

If there is anyone in this group who have come across this project, please help me out my providing me with photocopies of the same. I'll pay for them.

Another thing, after browsing past posts on this thread and other threads I thought I had seen somewhere posts pertaining to the availability of ECC83 and EL34 valves in India. I don't recall exactly where but if any of you in the forum could tell me where I woul;d appreciate that a lot. At the moment I am importing them from the USA under my Ham Radio quota along with other parts. I would therefore be grateful to you if any of you here could point out sources for the same for me in India. I require 100 + pieces of each of the items.

73ees
Patrick
__________________
Thinking is the Hardest Work there is. Which is the probable reason why so few engage in it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th February 2004, 06:03 AM   #19
diyAudio Member
 
ashok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 3RS
Default Indian tube suppliers.

I wonder if any one local supplier could come up a with large number of tubes.
Based on my past experience I think it might be safer to import to ensure that you get all working tubes and which conform to specifcations.
My imported ECC83's are far less noisy than the few genuine (?) ECC83's that I bought locally. I can't figure out why.
I have 6L6's that look fine and have working heaters but are dead when plugged in.
Be cautious and insist on money back and the right to return faulty units.
Cheers.
__________________
AM
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th February 2004, 06:41 AM   #20
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Nevermind
Send a message via Yahoo to peterpan73
Default Wow!! That was important information

Well Ashok, thats was indeed Important information. Yes i guess I might have to tag along one of my tube amps at the time of purchasing, rather than do it all via mail order. I'll keep that in mind. But the question remains where do I shop for them in India, I need addresess, web pages, tlephone/cell numbers. Can u help??

In this part of the world where I live in,finding electronic components means running of to GUwahati to get them. I don't have time for that.

Regards and peace to everyone in the forum.

patrick
__________________
Thinking is the Hardest Work there is. Which is the probable reason why so few engage in it.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PCB makers in Bangalore, India nitinbose Chip Amps 15 29th October 2007 03:47 PM
Group Buy: Saten Aluminum Knobs from India PHilgeman Parts 0 4th March 2004 04:17 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:57 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2