Hi,
is there a relieable source for Sanyo Os-cons in germany (maybe with a reasonable pricetag) ?
And what are the differences between SG, SP ,SEP ,SC ....etc ?
I have found those Sanyo :: Electrolytics :: Capacitors :: Passive Components :: Electronic Parts :: Banzai Music GmbH but I'm waiting for the SpecData which I requested.
I would be glad for any suggestions.
Best regards
Alex
is there a relieable source for Sanyo Os-cons in germany (maybe with a reasonable pricetag) ?
And what are the differences between SG, SP ,SEP ,SC ....etc ?
I have found those Sanyo :: Electrolytics :: Capacitors :: Passive Components :: Electronic Parts :: Banzai Music GmbH but I'm waiting for the SpecData which I requested.
I would be glad for any suggestions.
Best regards
Alex
Hi, Not sure Banzai are selling the SP serie :
I bought mine here :http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/264914-sanyo-oscon-sp-disapointed-shop.html#post4123092
good seller !
I bought mine here :http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/264914-sanyo-oscon-sp-disapointed-shop.html#post4123092
good seller !
Hi Eldam,
thx for your link. I ordered some.
But i figuered out that all the new Os-cons are produced by Panasonic:
audio-talk :: View topic - WANTED Sanyo Oscon SP 10uf 25V
As far as I know: All new Os-cons are SEPx and SVPx
SG,SP ...etc are no longer in production. (I heard some rumors they are now produced by Sprague Vishay - under new Name ??)
Overview
http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-data/pdf/AAB8000/AAB8000PE22.pdf
Are their any reviews about "old" vs "new" ....according to the ESR values the SVPEs and the SEPCs are promising ?
thx for your link. I ordered some.
But i figuered out that all the new Os-cons are produced by Panasonic:
audio-talk :: View topic - WANTED Sanyo Oscon SP 10uf 25V
As far as I know: All new Os-cons are SEPx and SVPx
SG,SP ...etc are no longer in production. (I heard some rumors they are now produced by Sprague Vishay - under new Name ??)
Overview
http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-data/pdf/AAB8000/AAB8000PE22.pdf
Are their any reviews about "old" vs "new" ....according to the ESR values the SVPEs and the SEPCs are promising ?
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The discontinued Sanyos have not the same dielectric than the nowadays polymers. Both are good for digital but have different sounding qualities in relation to what you want to cook in relation to the rest of your hifi system.
I like very much the discontinued Sanyo OSCON SP : the best of this Sanyo semi-organic serie : much lower esr and Cu leads than the others haven't. All the others Sanyo OSCON sound much softer but without life and less details & artiulation in mid-bass than the SPs: night and day with the SP !
The Panasonic SEPC/F range is a total different beast. lower ESR but dryer, among in relation to my taste. The SEP is softer and can give better results than the SEPC/F.
Nichicon polymers NFPcap range are soft, sometimes too much : a special mention to the PLE range (the best trebles I 've heard) but not maid above 6.3V. Have to try the FP cap R5 serie which looks like good also.
One of the best and neutral in the polymers maid today is ihmo the UCC PSA serie (ref number beginns by ASAxxxx) .
I always use test & try method with little tubes plugs for pcbs to avoid soldering on the pcb as some pads are very fragiles.... sometimes you don't need to use it.
The Lelons have nothing special...
I have tested the Sprague OSCON serie and found they were different than the Sanyo SP I find better. But it's ok they have this mat sound character when used in digital PS as local decoupling !
I like very much the discontinued Sanyo OSCON SP : the best of this Sanyo semi-organic serie : much lower esr and Cu leads than the others haven't. All the others Sanyo OSCON sound much softer but without life and less details & artiulation in mid-bass than the SPs: night and day with the SP !
The Panasonic SEPC/F range is a total different beast. lower ESR but dryer, among in relation to my taste. The SEP is softer and can give better results than the SEPC/F.
Nichicon polymers NFPcap range are soft, sometimes too much : a special mention to the PLE range (the best trebles I 've heard) but not maid above 6.3V. Have to try the FP cap R5 serie which looks like good also.
One of the best and neutral in the polymers maid today is ihmo the UCC PSA serie (ref number beginns by ASAxxxx) .
I always use test & try method with little tubes plugs for pcbs to avoid soldering on the pcb as some pads are very fragiles.... sometimes you don't need to use it.
The Lelons have nothing special...
I have tested the Sprague OSCON serie and found they were different than the Sanyo SP I find better. But it's ok they have this mat sound character when used in digital PS as local decoupling !
Thanks for this good explanation. What would you recommend for decoupling the digital Vin on a DAC ? Actually I'm using Muse KZ sometimes with a simple WIMA 0,1uF or SMD PPS 0,1uF. And another question what do you use to decouple Digitalparts wich are not near the analog stage. Like some Decoderchips on the Lasertray ....etc.
I like clear and rich sound. For analog purposes I prefer (Muse KZ and Slimics II - sometimes Panasonic FM or FC)
Thanx for your advices.
UCC PSA ...ASA or APSA ?
btw...it is so true some pads are really fragile.
I like clear and rich sound. For analog purposes I prefer (Muse KZ and Slimics II - sometimes Panasonic FM or FC)
Thanx for your advices.
UCC PSA ...ASA or APSA ?
btw...it is so true some pads are really fragile.
The Oscon SP / UCC APSA (iirc, the small form case are good also)/nichicon PLE (<=6.3v)/ Oscon SEP are always the first I use to try to understand the sounding characteristic of a digital pcb layout... (preference in this order)
Yes PPS or acrylic SMD caps from 0.1 to 1 uF , try also the 1 uF wIMA mks2 but with the 2.5 mm pitch leads: discovered it with the Subbu 3 : very good cap for local digit decoupling. Of course with smt don't forget 0.1 NPO ceramic caps (AVX maids a 1 uF one iirc). Their inductance is at the best as you can solder 0605 case size, but some very good experienced designer (P. Rogic, T. Loesch, etc...) don't like ceramic sometimes at certain positions (depend of the chip, here we talk about the TDA1541). Also some others prefer a value in smt nearer to 1 uF than the best theorical 0.1 uF. And with the // polymer of the greater value : you can imagine all the tests you need, good final results are at this price (if you have time for that like money : need two boards for having a reference, makes some blinding tests, etc).
Ahaha : to finish with this basics advices : sometime a polymer alone without the smt // cap sounds better and vice-versa (the 1 uf smt cap alone !)
I find KZ can give very good surprising result sometime in a local digital decoupling as the Wolfson 8804/5 spidf digital (need try&errors test to confirm : each pcb&layout are different !). But never find it good near a dac chip ! Use it with analog stage : can have a too litle crisp treble ! (Silmic2 ! urk : just for serie signal like DC blocker...).
yeap : in test phases : never heard a difference between soldered or just puted in holes without soldering... just take care to shorts of course !)
Yes PPS or acrylic SMD caps from 0.1 to 1 uF , try also the 1 uF wIMA mks2 but with the 2.5 mm pitch leads: discovered it with the Subbu 3 : very good cap for local digit decoupling. Of course with smt don't forget 0.1 NPO ceramic caps (AVX maids a 1 uF one iirc). Their inductance is at the best as you can solder 0605 case size, but some very good experienced designer (P. Rogic, T. Loesch, etc...) don't like ceramic sometimes at certain positions (depend of the chip, here we talk about the TDA1541). Also some others prefer a value in smt nearer to 1 uF than the best theorical 0.1 uF. And with the // polymer of the greater value : you can imagine all the tests you need, good final results are at this price (if you have time for that like money : need two boards for having a reference, makes some blinding tests, etc).
Ahaha : to finish with this basics advices : sometime a polymer alone without the smt // cap sounds better and vice-versa (the 1 uf smt cap alone !)
I find KZ can give very good surprising result sometime in a local digital decoupling as the Wolfson 8804/5 spidf digital (need try&errors test to confirm : each pcb&layout are different !). But never find it good near a dac chip ! Use it with analog stage : can have a too litle crisp treble ! (Silmic2 ! urk : just for serie signal like DC blocker...).
yeap : in test phases : never heard a difference between soldered or just puted in holes without soldering... just take care to shorts of course !)
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Most manufacturers release simulation models of their caps those days. This will tell you a lot more about their caps than any subjective evaluation, especially once you start paralleling caps.
Just a reminder of what can happen if you try caps in // without caution. In the attached quick sim (it doesn't take into account all tracks parasitics), you see:
Top is ferrite + Pana 20SVP22M (22uF/20V polymer)
Middle is ferrite + Pana 20SVP22M + 100n X7R
Bottom is ferrite + Pana 20SVP22M + 2.2uF X7R
Peufeu, among others, has published quite a bit on this forum on optimal decoupling schemes.
Attachments
Yes, to be read and re read.
// caps is hard !
About caps and datas : also depend on the layout and shematic : some regs need high esr at the output, etc.
So without any scope at home, I try to believe my ears and experience with caps by a long test& error method not giving a final note to caps in relation to each others. Sometime I tested caps with close value about inductance, ESR if not the same... and it can give a total different sounding result... which I find strange as I believe to measurements to valid a scientific method... testing a theory to find a paradigm is the basic of the cientifical approach !
// caps is hard !
About caps and datas : also depend on the layout and shematic : some regs need high esr at the output, etc.
So without any scope at home, I try to believe my ears and experience with caps by a long test& error method not giving a final note to caps in relation to each others. Sometime I tested caps with close value about inductance, ESR if not the same... and it can give a total different sounding result... which I find strange as I believe to measurements to valid a scientific method... testing a theory to find a paradigm is the basic of the cientifical approach !
First thing I noticed: I changed the decoupling caps on the lasertray (pretty the same value and voltage rating). Without any burn in time I got less reading errors. I mean no track searching problems wich sometimes occure with copy protected cd's or some type of Cd brands. The whole time I thought it is a laserdiode issue. Or systemissue at all - old cd67.
How long is the break-in periode for Sanyo oscons SP ?
How long is the break-in periode for Sanyo oscons SP ?
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