Hello happy taxpayers,
I'm looking for a spice model of the Toshiba 2SK369 high-gm JFet (not 2SK389 !!!). Searched the site and the net, but nothing...
Any help ?
Thanks.
I'm looking for a spice model of the Toshiba 2SK369 high-gm JFet (not 2SK389 !!!). Searched the site and the net, but nothing...
Any help ?
Thanks.
Toshiba 2SK369
Hi there,
I am also interested in the 2SK369. I am going to use it in
a MC amp. If you are really interested, pop me a email and
I will try to get it from my supplier. (I run a business selling
audio kits and audio components)
bty, what software are you using? Please do tell me.
James Yung
Praise! Audio 😉
Hi there,
I am also interested in the 2SK369. I am going to use it in
a MC amp. If you are really interested, pop me a email and
I will try to get it from my supplier. (I run a business selling
audio kits and audio components)
bty, what software are you using? Please do tell me.
James Yung
Praise! Audio 😉
Hi James,
I already have a bunch of them, but thanks for your proposal !
BTW, I use MicroCap 7 from Spectrum Soft (http://www.spectrum-soft.com). Easy and quick.
I already have a bunch of them, but thanks for your proposal !
BTW, I use MicroCap 7 from Spectrum Soft (http://www.spectrum-soft.com). Easy and quick.
I think Microcap includes 2SK363.
2SK369 is the low noise version of 2SK363.
Maybe this and the 2SK369 datasheet could help you change model parameters?
Greetings
/Hugo 🙂
2SK369 is the low noise version of 2SK363.
Maybe this and the 2SK369 datasheet could help you change model parameters?
Greetings
/Hugo 🙂
Hi Hugo,
Just checked, but ... no. In fact yes 😉 , it should, but in my demo version, none of the 2SK series are available....
And as I'm not an expert, I don't know which parameters in the model are relevant to change one fet into another... 😕
Thanks anyway,
Just checked, but ... no. In fact yes 😉 , it should, but in my demo version, none of the 2SK series are available....
And as I'm not an expert, I don't know which parameters in the model are relevant to change one fet into another... 😕
Thanks anyway,
.MODEL 2SK363_V NJF (VTO=-574.395M BETA=95.173M LAMBDA=1M IS=10F RS=3.11187
+ CGD=36.6561P CGS=60.0451P PB=1.99682 KF=0.001F AF=500M )
.MODEL 2SK363BL NJF (VTO=-398.254M BETA=85.9633M LAMBDA=1M IS=10F CGD=36.6561P
+ CGS=60.0451P PB=1.99682 KF=0.001F AF=500M )
.MODEL 2SK363GR NJF (VTO=-337.112M BETA=80.3593M LAMBDA=1M IS=10F CGD=36.6561P
+ CGS=60.0451P PB=1.99682 KF=0.001F AF=500M )
Neither do I but some smart guys might tell you...
/Hugo 🙂
+ CGD=36.6561P CGS=60.0451P PB=1.99682 KF=0.001F AF=500M )
.MODEL 2SK363BL NJF (VTO=-398.254M BETA=85.9633M LAMBDA=1M IS=10F CGD=36.6561P
+ CGS=60.0451P PB=1.99682 KF=0.001F AF=500M )
.MODEL 2SK363GR NJF (VTO=-337.112M BETA=80.3593M LAMBDA=1M IS=10F CGD=36.6561P
+ CGS=60.0451P PB=1.99682 KF=0.001F AF=500M )
Neither do I but some smart guys might tell you...
/Hugo 🙂
Thanks Hugo !!!
Will try to compare with datasheet using a "MicroCap Curve Tracer" 😉
For quick reference, Datasheets can be found here :
2SK369.pdf
2SK363.pdf
2SK363 seems to have a higher transconductance (60mS vs 40 mS typical), but at first glance, apart from the noise, seem to be close.
Thanks again.
Will try to compare with datasheet using a "MicroCap Curve Tracer" 😉
For quick reference, Datasheets can be found here :
2SK369.pdf
2SK363.pdf
2SK363 seems to have a higher transconductance (60mS vs 40 mS typical), but at first glance, apart from the noise, seem to be close.
Thanks again.
.model 2sk369 NJF(Beta=82.61m Rs=1.556 Rd=1.556 Betatce=-.5 Lambda=414.5u
+ Vto=-.3552 Vtotc=-2.5m Cgd=46.72p M=.3623 Pb=.3905 Fc=.5
+ Cgs=70.51p Isr=86.47p Nr=2 Is=8.647p N=1 Xti=3 Alpha=10u Vk=100
+ Kf=74.85E-18 Af=1)
+ Vto=-.3552 Vtotc=-2.5m Cgd=46.72p M=.3623 Pb=.3905 Fc=.5
+ Cgs=70.51p Isr=86.47p Nr=2 Is=8.647p N=1 Xti=3 Alpha=10u Vk=100
+ Kf=74.85E-18 Af=1)
Thanks a lot, Pedja !!
Haven't had the time to test my "software curve tracer" to compare Netlist's models to datasheet specs, but will do soon, now adding the model you kindly provided 😉
Thanks again.
Haven't had the time to test my "software curve tracer" to compare Netlist's models to datasheet specs, but will do soon, now adding the model you kindly provided 😉
Thanks again.
CheffDeGaar said:
Hi Cheff,
Thanks for your response. I didn't mean to sell you some 2SK369 although I can certainly do that. I meant getting the spice model for you for free using my connection to Toshiba. So, do you really want/need it?
The 2SK369 and 2SK363 are identical except 363 is low noise. These are the trade off --- low noise for high gain.
Thanks for telling me about your software. bty, are you using any PCB software? I'm using Easy PC. Cheap but I don't like it; it's more for digital/computer circuits. Will try out Spectrum Soft, thanks.
James Yung
Praise! Audio
typing error
Sorry guys,
Typing mistake: 369 is the low noise version of 363.
bty 2SK170/2SJ74 complementary pair is the low noise version of
2SK364/2SJ104 complementary pair. I'm using 364/104 in my
opamp OPA604 based Class A amp because device noise is not
an issue and 364/104 has signafigcantly higher gain then 170/74.
James Yung
Praise! Audio
Sorry guys,
Typing mistake: 369 is the low noise version of 363.
bty 2SK170/2SJ74 complementary pair is the low noise version of
2SK364/2SJ104 complementary pair. I'm using 364/104 in my
opamp OPA604 based Class A amp because device noise is not
an issue and 364/104 has signafigcantly higher gain then 170/74.
James Yung
Praise! Audio
Praise! said:
Sorry James, my mistake 🙁 (me non English native with little brain)
Well, if your connections to Toshiba allow you to get a model for the 369, I'm sure lots among us would like it 😉
I make my (few) PCBs with a linux freeware (pcb)... Nice one, but no autorouter. But I'm gald with it 😉
Have you looked at this thread on the forum ?
models from PSpice I bet ......
K369 ........ Beta=82.61m?
I don't think so! There are a ton of bad Spice models out there. G.I.G.O.
Understand what the parameters mean and come to Data Sheets and measurements. The truth will set you free.
http://www.eecg.utoronto.ca/~johns/spice/part3.html#7.8:att'n:
K369 ........ Beta=82.61m?
I don't think so! There are a ton of bad Spice models out there. G.I.G.O.
Understand what the parameters mean and come to Data Sheets and measurements. The truth will set you free.
http://www.eecg.utoronto.ca/~johns/spice/part3.html#7.8:att'n:
Attachments
spice for 369
Hi Cheff,
It's alright; My mother tougue is not English either.
My supplier has good relationship with Toshiba and I have good relationship with my supplier. So, I'll see if my supplier can get it for me.
However, no promise; I can only try. So which Toshiba devices do you
need other than 2SK369? For me, I use so many Toshiba's JFETs, BJTs and
Mosfets that I need almost all of their range. Toshiba has a reputation of not replying inquires. So, don't be too greedy, limit your devices to 4. After these 4 is received, then I can ask for next batch.
James Yung
Praise! Audio
Hi Cheff,
It's alright; My mother tougue is not English either.
My supplier has good relationship with Toshiba and I have good relationship with my supplier. So, I'll see if my supplier can get it for me.
However, no promise; I can only try. So which Toshiba devices do you
need other than 2SK369? For me, I use so many Toshiba's JFETs, BJTs and
Mosfets that I need almost all of their range. Toshiba has a reputation of not replying inquires. So, don't be too greedy, limit your devices to 4. After these 4 is received, then I can ask for next batch.
James Yung
Praise! Audio
Re: models from PSpice I bet ......
Indeed, according to my books the 2SK369 has a |Yfs| between 25 and 40. If 'Forward transadmittance' is the same as Beta which is transconductance.
2SK363 between 25 and 60.
Nice link you provided. All those odd numbers and symbols are not very straightforward for us mortals. 😉 Most of the time we have to rely on what we find, good and bad models...
Deriving a model from a datasheet is even more difficult. Many of us are simply not programmed for it 😀
/Hugo 🙂
Hi FredFred Dieckmann said:K369 ........ Beta=82.61m?
The truth will set you free.
Indeed, according to my books the 2SK369 has a |Yfs| between 25 and 40. If 'Forward transadmittance' is the same as Beta which is transconductance.
2SK363 between 25 and 60.
Nice link you provided. All those odd numbers and symbols are not very straightforward for us mortals. 😉 Most of the time we have to rely on what we find, good and bad models...
Deriving a model from a datasheet is even more difficult. Many of us are simply not programmed for it 😀
/Hugo 🙂
Re: Re: models from PSpice I bet ......
Hi guys,
It looks to me that "Beta" correspones to gm. The fact is that different samples of the same JFET type has different Idss and the higher the Idss, the higher the gm. The transconductance of a common source JFET amp with no source degeneration resistor is 2*Idss/Vgs(off) and Idss and Vgs(off) is linearly related. Anyway, the data sheets' gm=40 is specified at 5mA Idss while the gm=82 is specified at the highest possible Idss of 30mA. It can be seen from the diagrams on the data sheets for verification. That's how the appearent discrpencies arises. I hope this clarifies the situation!
James Yung
Praise! Audio
Netlist said:
Hi guys,
It looks to me that "Beta" correspones to gm. The fact is that different samples of the same JFET type has different Idss and the higher the Idss, the higher the gm. The transconductance of a common source JFET amp with no source degeneration resistor is 2*Idss/Vgs(off) and Idss and Vgs(off) is linearly related. Anyway, the data sheets' gm=40 is specified at 5mA Idss while the gm=82 is specified at the highest possible Idss of 30mA. It can be seen from the diagrams on the data sheets for verification. That's how the appearent discrpencies arises. I hope this clarifies the situation!
James Yung
Praise! Audio
Re: models from PSpice I bet ......
Fred, I have never thought I could find the freedom in this. Thank you!
Yes, it varies with Idss (which again varies a lot) as already shown in the graph you posted and you can call it optimistic but it is not wrong. Below is the next graph from the same datasheet.
For those interested, a short description of the parameters can be found probably in any simulator’s Help area.
Pedja
Fred, I have never thought I could find the freedom in this. Thank you!
Yes, it varies with Idss (which again varies a lot) as already shown in the graph you posted and you can call it optimistic but it is not wrong. Below is the next graph from the same datasheet.
For those interested, a short description of the parameters can be found probably in any simulator’s Help area.
Pedja
Attachments
posted models
The model Statements that begin with *SRC and are the models that came with the Spice program and that I use. I often tweak them for Ids and the corresponding transconductance from the Data Sheets. The other models were shown to illustrate the difference between models for allegedly the same part. A good understanding of the data sheet is VERY important and all models should be compared to the parameters in the Data Sheet at the intended bias current and Vds that the part will be operating at in the circuit.
The model Statements that begin with *SRC and are the models that came with the Spice program and that I use. I often tweak them for Ids and the corresponding transconductance from the Data Sheets. The other models were shown to illustrate the difference between models for allegedly the same part. A good understanding of the data sheet is VERY important and all models should be compared to the parameters in the Data Sheet at the intended bias current and Vds that the part will be operating at in the circuit.
Back in the real world.........
Let me know when you run across some Jfets with Idss of 30mA and show me a circuit where they are actually biased that high. The problem is someone assumes these values and then goes and builds a circuit with a couple of milliamps bias current and wonders where the gain went. Most of the Toshiba jfets availble to the DIY are in the GR Ids group and most the circuits I have seen run the device at 1 to 3 milliamps........ Tell me how useful your model will be for these circuits.
I try and design most published circuits for the GR bias group because that is what is available to most. I would be very surprised to see any commercial products designed for anything higher than the BL group........ and I have looked in a lot of products with the K170s and J74s.
Let me know when you run across some Jfets with Idss of 30mA and show me a circuit where they are actually biased that high. The problem is someone assumes these values and then goes and builds a circuit with a couple of milliamps bias current and wonders where the gain went. Most of the Toshiba jfets availble to the DIY are in the GR Ids group and most the circuits I have seen run the device at 1 to 3 milliamps........ Tell me how useful your model will be for these circuits.
I try and design most published circuits for the GR bias group because that is what is available to most. I would be very surprised to see any commercial products designed for anything higher than the BL group........ and I have looked in a lot of products with the K170s and J74s.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.