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Old 20th January 2004, 06:17 PM   #11
Pedja is offline Pedja  Serbia
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Quote:
Originally posted by SimontY
Looking on Audioasylum I quickly realised the name Bobwire was synonymous with CDP tweaking. Eventually I found what I was looking for: Bobwire's article/post. This is an excellent guide, and obviously some of it overlaps with Thorstens mods (...)
Not really good guide and certainly can be misleading for beginners. A few "tweaks" suggested in this article can screw up the sound nicely. Some are good though.

Quote:
Originally posted by Zombie
I recommend matching the 10k and 27k resistors at the diff.amps after the DAC within 0,1% or better. Makes a great difference in sound quality...
The difference is certainly not great if exists at all.

Pedja
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Old 20th January 2004, 06:30 PM   #12
Zombie is offline Zombie  Sweden
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Quote:
Not really good guide and certainly can be misleading for beginners. A few "tweaks" suggested in this article can screw up the sound nicely. Some are good though.
Well, since you have an opinion, wouldn't it be nice to know - according to you - what Bobwire mods are not good and which are and why, if applicable?

Quote:
The difference is certainly not great if exists at all.
and you base that on...?

Cheers,
tom
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Old 20th January 2004, 07:00 PM   #13
Pedja is offline Pedja  Serbia
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zombie
Well, since you have an opinion, wouldn't it be nice to know - according to you - what Bobwire mods are not good and which are and why, if applicable?
Of course. His supply decoupling methods are 50 years old and are not applicable for the digital circuits. He could be also more careful with “swap the resistor with choke or jumper it” approach since if you do what he recommends for R107 you will alter the operating points in the RF amp and the result will be the fatiguing sound (yes, I did tried it). Let me stay deeply convinced that there is not an important misunderstanding behind the mentioning of the I/V opamps in CD63. At the other hand, the signal lines shielding suggested by him yields good results. For more I should dig a bit, it was long time ago that I bothered with this.

Quote:

and you base that on...?
Sorry? If you meant to ask did I try, the answer is yes, I did.

Pedja
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Old 20th January 2004, 07:24 PM   #14
Zombie is offline Zombie  Sweden
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OK, then we are of differing opinions conc the matching and its results...
Anyway, would be nice to have your opinion about the bulk of the Bobwire mods, as it will cost a lot (buying caps) or involve operations that can't be reversed so easily (the coax stuff).

I have thought about the coax replacements a long time, but haven't got around to it. Do you mean that only the digital signal to the DAC is worthwhile or ALL the coax mods?

Have you done any shielding of the different chips onboard? What results?

What are the "Top 5" mods in your opinion (once the output caps are changed or shorted)?

Cheers,
tom
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Old 20th January 2004, 09:33 PM   #15
SimontY is offline SimontY  United Kingdom
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Default Re: Talking about Bobwire

Hi,

Quote:
Originally posted by Zombie
I recommend matching the 10k and 27k resistors at the diff.amps after the DAC within 0,1% or better.
Thanks, I did this the last time you recommended it

The change was enormous, if not entirely for the better in the context of the entire system. The sound became more refined and softer, I think with better imaging, but it sounded dull.... until I fixed more problems. (I should add that I also broke my display at the same time, which perhaps contributed to the sonic change.) I used 1% metal film, and changed nearly all around the DAC and output stage.

Quote:
Originally posted by Zombie

Have you done any shielding of the different chips onboard? What results?

What are the "Top 5" mods in your opinion (once the output caps are changed or shorted)?
I guess you wanted him to answer this, but I shielded the chips, it didn't change the sound very much, seemed to lose some harshness and become more refined.

My favorite mods were:
(obviously removing those caps!!)
1 damping with bitumen and using oak cones (by far biggest musicality upgrade!!!)
2 changing some diodes to shottky, and using a cap on the mains input (less harsh, sweeter treble, better all-round)
3 changing op-amps to OPA2604, decoupled with 220nf (bolder sound)
4 feeding my new clock with external home made 5v psu (timing and solidity, and everything!)
5 reclocking with Audiocom clock

I've probably got the order a bit off or forgotten something good, but there you go. Besides, those top 5 wouldnt make a virgin player sound like mine - there are a number of other little things that were nice done too

Hmm, not got round to replacing R107 yet! I think I'll leave it alone now

I've replaced quite a few power line resistors with inductors and ferrite beads - the noise floor is amazing, I can hear all sorts of little details that I had no clue were there. All manner of hiss and crap on CDs! And I still have no clue about these subleties hearing something like an Arcam FMJ or Linn Genki, admittedly in a hi-fi shop...
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Old 20th January 2004, 09:43 PM   #16
SimontY is offline SimontY  United Kingdom
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Pedja,

I appreciate you warning us about potential downgrades to sound quality. I am a beginner essentially.

Would you please elaborate on what is hot and what is not?

For example, I intend to solder in a fair load of Panasonic FC 1,200uf caps as he suggests. Good or bad idea?

Hmm, here's a tough question:
How the hell do you do the coax swaps to the transport and still have the ability to remove the main pcb for further work???

(I can barely imagine this player having better sound, but there is still a slight harshness and hardness, hmm, coax......)
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Old 20th January 2004, 11:35 PM   #17
Pedja is offline Pedja  Serbia
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zombie
I have thought about the coax replacements a long time, but haven't got around to it. Do you mean that only the digital signal to the DAC is worthwhile or ALL the coax mods?
At the moment I did it only with the eye-pattern. Later I was forced to replace some other leads (those sockets are not the world-class and after you retrieve the ribbon cable a few times…) and put new cables which were not shielded but still were shorter. I am not sure if I could hear the difference then.

Quote:
Have you done any shielding of the different chips onboard? What results?
Shield the uP to hear if you like the shielding or not. (I do.) A few square cm of copper and a drop of glue is all you need.

Quote:
What are the "Top 5" mods in your opinion (once the output caps are changed or shorted)?
Not really Top Five but I wrote here something like that:
http://users.verat.net/~pedjarogic/a...ds/cd_mods.htm

If I’d start again with this player, I’d probably go opampsless (applies to the HDAMs too) in the analog stage.

Quote:
Originally posted by SimontY
For example, I intend to solder in a fair load of Panasonic FC 1,200uf caps as he suggests. Good or bad idea?
Bad.

Quote:
Hmm, here's a tough question:
How the hell do you do the coax swaps to the transport and still have the ability to remove the main pcb for further work???
Pull out the R501 and solder eye-pattern cable there and you'll have it available for desoldering before you remove the board. If you replace majority or all leads… well, announce the end of the works.

Quote:
(I can barely imagine this player having better sound, but there is still a slight harshness and hardness, hmm, coax......)
As said above, I would probably do some things different now, but even then, my guess is this player ultimately can not sound as clean, quiet and natural as non-o/s can do. But this is not pooh-pooh about it, I think it is pretty good player which, tweaked, can be as good as delta/sigma unit can be. Even if I would start to build delta/sigma DAC from the scratch, there are no many equal or better chips than SM5872. Maybe some current output ones… will try once.

Pedja
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Old 21st January 2004, 08:35 AM   #18
SimontY is offline SimontY  United Kingdom
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Thanks Pedj,

Don't really understand: "Pull out the R501 and solder eye-pattern cable there and you'll have it available for desoldering before you remove the board."

Please quickly say why putting in better caps is bad. Are they too low quality to really help, or just too big? What performance parameter determines "bad" here? ESR?

Should the main smoothing caps be big fellas?

Cheers
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Old 22nd January 2004, 01:40 AM   #19
Pedja is offline Pedja  Serbia
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Hi SimontY,

Quote:
Originally posted by SimontY
Don't really understand: "Pull out the R501 and solder eye-pattern cable there and you'll have it available for desoldering before you remove the board."
R501 is the place where the HF (eye-pattern) signal is coming to the main board. Pull out of the board one end of that resistor and solder the cable there - you could later desolder the cable before you pull out the board.

Quote:
Please quickly say why putting in better caps is bad. Are they too low quality to really help, or just too big? What performance parameter determines "bad" here? ESR?
It is good to put better caps but it is not good to put bigger caps. Actually if you look the ESR at 100Hz, bigger caps are better. It is their inevitable higher inductance (= higher impedance at higher freqs) that makes them not wanted in the digital circuits. O yes, if I'd go again with this player, I'd also put a few regulators more in it. Decoupling wize.

Quote:
Should the main smoothing caps be big fellas?
IMO those caps before the regs for the analog part should be bigger.

Pedja
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Old 25th January 2004, 02:04 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by SimontY
hi wintermute,

Another spot can probably take a 16v/3300uf (C806). Crap thing is, next to this (C805) Bobwire recommends a 35v/4700uf!!! Now, what kind of cap will fit into a 1cm diameter space, and is anything more than 1000uf?!?!?
Does the CD67 have more room? I had lots of room for four Nichicon 4700uF/35v FX Muse caps in place of C803, C804, C805, and C806.

Regards,
Dan
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