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Old 7th January 2004, 10:34 AM   #11
SimontY is offline SimontY  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Certainly this transformer must to have larger power , than is summary power of all apparatus
Interesting, how would one go about deciding on an appropriate size? Could you use the VA rating, and assume you need, say 2x what the transformer is in your amp? In my case its a 2000va and 350va in amp, so I think I'm ok

One more thing I'll add is I believe its important to have good low-resistance wiring to and from the transformer, assuming its used with a power amp. I'll also add that I do believe something *is* lost, but its probably a worthwhile trade-off I believe this, because when I polish plug pins, use contact enhancer, use thick mains wiring, etc. I gain solidity in the bass, lose distortion etc, and to some small degree this is the inverse of what happens when you plug in an isolation transformer. Its a bit of a twisted association I know, but I can not just agree nothing is lost.
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Old 7th January 2004, 10:40 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Duo
I find that the best way to condition power easily is to use large isolation transformers. They will dissipate line transients, small spikes, and noise as heat in the core. This helps to reduce the amount of noise and fluctuation in on the secondary of the transformer. [snip].
Duo,

In my experience, this doesn't work very well with toroid xformers. These things are so wideband that they transmit all the junk faithfully to the secondary, defeating the purpose. Use some nice old-fashioned E-I cores for optimum cleaning.

Jan Didden
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Old 7th January 2004, 11:05 AM   #13
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To simontY : 350 up to 2000 will be OK . To jannemann : Certainly capacity berween prim. and sec. is by toroidal transformer bigger than by EI, but output voltage is by toroidal trafo much " harder ". I am using on each outlet symetrical choke ( 10 A ) with X 2 cap on output and I have any problems with disturbing . .
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Old 7th January 2004, 11:36 AM   #14
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Notorious,

I´m also a great fan of isolation transformers. I use a specially build EI transformer wich also balances the power supply (ac-balanced-power). This was by far the biggest improvement in my system for a very long time. (search for ac balanced power in this forum and you´ll find some pictures)

I don´t think you need a 4000VA transformer for your two D240´s. Aren´t they class A? The current draw won´t change very much and you can use a transformer wich is rated below twice the power draw of the system.

The transformer I use is rated at 800VA for a 40°C rise in temperature (over ambient). For short periods it can deliver a lot more but since all of my equipment is class A and total consumption aprox. 700 watts this will never happen.

My observations were also much sweeter highs, much more silence between notes, more information about the recording room, less distortion etc. No loss of dynamics were noted.

william

P.S. here´s the link

Balanced AC power
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Old 7th January 2004, 03:55 PM   #15
claudio is offline claudio  Italy
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Default Another kind of isolation-transformer

Hi,
PsAudio has a nice product: http://www.psaudio.com/products/ultimate_outlet.asp ; it uses the Balun technology. It starts at $299, it's not heavy like transformers, it's small and works and sounds great.

Claudio
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Old 7th January 2004, 07:47 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by wuffwaff
Notorious,

I´m also a great fan of isolation transformers. I use a specially build EI transformer wich also balances the power supply (ac-balanced-power). This was by far the biggest improvement in my system for a very long time. (search for ac balanced power in this forum and you´ll find some pictures)
P.S. here´s the link

Balanced AC power
Thanx William.. I enjoy reading the article by Martin Glasband, and I'm persuaded.. That trafo I have at home has center tap (two.. primary and secondary are center tapped) and I had long ago already separate audio earth (Fig 3).. So I'll have look how I'm going to switch on trafo (it's in cellar) so it won't be constantly on.. Today I bought yet another isolation transformer, and that one is earthed on primary (static shield) but without the center tap on secondary.. What I know from isolation trafo's is that they shouldn't be earthed, and Martin Glasband theory to put secondary wire to earth (Fig. 5) seem to me little dangerous especially in situation where you get TV cable earth in your system.. So I'm going to apply transverse mode for rest of audio/video system since they are already earthed trough my preamp..
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Old 7th January 2004, 11:25 PM   #17
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By conincidence, I put together a mains filter for my CD player today using a 120VA toroidal isolation transformer preceded by 3 10-Amp filters and configured to provide a balanced output .

I agree with most of the comments regarding sound, more fine detail, extended highs, I would also say more dynamic but very relaxed sounding at the same time

Extremely worthwhile
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Old 8th January 2004, 07:35 AM   #18
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Notorious,

it would be dangerous not to connect earth (at least here in Germany, in Holland there´s no earth connecting for dry rooms).
Without the earth connection the balanced idea won´t work.

My father (wo lives in Holland) has connected his transformer to the ac (plus ground) in the cellar to have the neccessary earth connection.

William
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Old 8th January 2004, 01:08 PM   #19
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Originally posted by SimontY
Ahh, Mr Eric, you continue to educate me
I'm glad to have a good student.

I myself wondered if that leading edge impact type effect I initially missed was a false addition. One thing I have noticed with my system developing musically, is that it doesn't sound very punchy, in that it never really thumps the sound at me, like even maybe a £3-4000 'shop' system seems to. This is conterversial (to the measurement brigade perhaps?) and off-topic, but I believe this false [dynamic punchiness] character comes from using heavy metal and glass supports and stock, often soft, equipment feet. Perhaps the cabling too, and total lack of mains conditioning!
I find plenty of hifi dealers are fooled by these and other falsnesses.
In addition to lousy power, yes acoustic feedback can cause this false dynamic character, and equipment stands are a big part of this.

I've grown to dislike this false hi-fi shop sound, because it never quite fools me into thinking its real music. People have sometimes looked at my huge sub, and said "where's the bass then?" - and others have certainly thought it. But if I play a bassy track, say Bjork - Hyperballad, you wouldn't want anymore bass, it would be unpleasant (so loud and around 40hzish), and things rattle! My point is, with some of the things many people do (and fail to do) to their systems everything ends up sounding the same (coloured)!! I think every system needs attention paid to the power, of there will never be deep, rich bass, clear treble, or naturally warm mids. Of course, that attention could be paid inside the equipment
Yes, real bass just emerges and never draws singular attention.

I'd like to add that I thought an isolation transformer might be a cure to my harshness and glare, Eric reminded me of this. It wasn't, it had only a modest effect in this department.
superfluous-- (I'm going to say this in every thread I post in now: it was Kimber cable that cured my harshness!! First 30% or so was cured by replacing main cable to amp, then an even bigger chunk was removed by internally wiring with Kimber. I love it so much, my white glaring sheen over all music has been turned off, forever!)

Haven't you read some of those other threads - power cables, speaker cables and interconnects DO NOT and CANNOT change your system sound - these products are all peddled by snake-oil salesmen to take money from the gullible.

Eric.
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Old 8th January 2004, 01:11 PM   #20
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Originally posted by SimontY
Ahh, Mr Eric, you continue to educate me
I'm glad to have a good student.

I myself wondered if that leading edge impact type effect I initially missed was a false addition. One thing I have noticed with my system developing musically, is that it doesn't sound very punchy, in that it never really thumps the sound at me, like even maybe a £3-4000 'shop' system seems to. This is conterversial (to the measurement brigade perhaps?) and off-topic, but I believe this false [dynamic punchiness] character comes from using heavy metal and glass supports and stock, often soft, equipment feet. Perhaps the cabling too, and total lack of mains conditioning!
I find plenty of hifi dealers are fooled by these and other falsnesses.
In addition to lousy power, yes acoustic feedback can cause this false dynamic character, and equipment stands are a big part of this.

I've grown to dislike this false hi-fi shop sound, because it never quite fools me into thinking its real music. People have sometimes looked at my huge sub, and said "where's the bass then?" - and others have certainly thought it. But if I play a bassy track, say Bjork - Hyperballad, you wouldn't want anymore bass, it would be unpleasant (so loud and around 40hzish), and things rattle! My point is, with some of the things many people do (and fail to do) to their systems everything ends up sounding the same (coloured)!! I think every system needs attention paid to the power, of there will never be deep, rich bass, clear treble, or naturally warm mids. Of course, that attention could be paid inside the equipment
Yes, real bass just emerges and never draws singular attention.

I'd like to add that I thought an isolation transformer might be a cure to my harshness and glare, Eric reminded me of this. It wasn't, it had only a modest effect in this department.
superfluous-- (I'm going to say this in every thread I post in now: it was Kimber cable that cured my harshness!! First 30% or so was cured by replacing main cable to amp, then an even bigger chunk was removed by internally wiring with Kimber. I love it so much, my white glaring sheen over all music has been turned off, forever!)

Haven't you read some of those other threads - power treatment, power cables, speaker cables and interconnects DO NOT and CANNOT change your system sound - these products are peddled by snake-oil salesmen to take money from the gullible.

Eric.
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