...I know of only one thats commercially available thats somewhat affordable. its by ATI Audio called the matchmaker, and I think its about $200.
What I'm trying to do is feed a DJ mixer (that i havent bought yet) RCA output into my Ashly crossover (which is balanced, or unbalanced, but I like balanced and I'm sure I'll be using applications when the mixer is 50+ feet from the crossover).
So- I'm wondering if theres any schematic on the net or if anybody knows of here to build a balanced line transmitter from RCA to XLR. Or a cheaper alternative to the ATI audio one.
What I'm trying to do is feed a DJ mixer (that i havent bought yet) RCA output into my Ashly crossover (which is balanced, or unbalanced, but I like balanced and I'm sure I'll be using applications when the mixer is 50+ feet from the crossover).
So- I'm wondering if theres any schematic on the net or if anybody knows of here to build a balanced line transmitter from RCA to XLR. Or a cheaper alternative to the ATI audio one.
eRiCdWoNg said:
If you can find out how the outputs of the DJ mixer are configured, you can balance its output with just a couple of inexpensive passive parts.
Check out section 2.4 of this application note from Jensen:
http://www.jensentransformers.com/an/an003.pdf
se
The DJ mixer market most of them are RCA although some are XLR out,
the more expensive mixers, I wonder why this is. Dj setups typically
use "pro audio" amps and other components.... Anyway I havent had good
experiences with unbalanced signals feeding my Ashly crossover, but
now I think about it it was probbly the cheap hosa cable I was using
before. Perhaps Ill buy some good quality cable this time, and try it
out. The Ashly should have enough gain to drive the power amps to
full potential. I also am looking at the mixer's tech specs and it
says main out max is +21 dBu (its a behringer, at least they have
products in the pro audio market better then gemini)
As for overdriving, one of my amps is a Crown Macro-Tech 5000Vz so I
sure hope I wont over drive that or I'll be over driving my ears =)
Hmmm, the mixers only $140 or so, it would seem silly to spend $100+
on parts to balance the signal coming out of a $140 mixer haha.
Unless I got nothin better to do with my time/money. Hmmmm..... ill
give it a whirl and see what happens.
the more expensive mixers, I wonder why this is. Dj setups typically
use "pro audio" amps and other components.... Anyway I havent had good
experiences with unbalanced signals feeding my Ashly crossover, but
now I think about it it was probbly the cheap hosa cable I was using
before. Perhaps Ill buy some good quality cable this time, and try it
out. The Ashly should have enough gain to drive the power amps to
full potential. I also am looking at the mixer's tech specs and it
says main out max is +21 dBu (its a behringer, at least they have
products in the pro audio market better then gemini)
As for overdriving, one of my amps is a Crown Macro-Tech 5000Vz so I
sure hope I wont over drive that or I'll be over driving my ears =)
Hmmm, the mixers only $140 or so, it would seem silly to spend $100+
on parts to balance the signal coming out of a $140 mixer haha.
Unless I got nothin better to do with my time/money. Hmmmm..... ill
give it a whirl and see what happens.
The only reason you have to be distracted by all of this is IF you have a hum problem. Since you have not bought the equipment yet......
If you go to rane.com they have a wiring diagram that will show how to wire an RCA plug to an XLR (AKA cannon, microphone) connector. This was also covered in some previous diyaudio.com topics. One of them even had the rane diagrams posted.
I am sure that any DJ mixer has more than enough gain to overcome the 6dB you loose by going unbalanced instead of balanced. The main virtue of balanced is that it is more imune to hum and noise over a long run. In the context of your application, there is no sound quality improvement to be had going balanced line, as long as hum and noise is not present.
Inside of your cross over I would be willing to bet is unbalanced circuitry, 1/2 the circuit costs 1/2 as much to produce. You will not loose anything by giving your crossover a clean, noise free unbalanced signal.
If you do wish or need to run balanced, there is plenty of information in any opamp cookbook or application notes from any opamp manufacturer. Three NE5532 opamps, a box, some caps and resistors, some connectors and a power supply is all you need. Could be done for $20.00
It really all depends on the size of your wallet. Some people will tell you you need to spend $200.00 on cable. I have used Belden 9451 on very long microphone runs and it worked quite well. Buy the equipment you like, try it and if it is too noisey, then you can look for a balanced solution.
Enjoy,
Aud_Mot
If you go to rane.com they have a wiring diagram that will show how to wire an RCA plug to an XLR (AKA cannon, microphone) connector. This was also covered in some previous diyaudio.com topics. One of them even had the rane diagrams posted.
I am sure that any DJ mixer has more than enough gain to overcome the 6dB you loose by going unbalanced instead of balanced. The main virtue of balanced is that it is more imune to hum and noise over a long run. In the context of your application, there is no sound quality improvement to be had going balanced line, as long as hum and noise is not present.
Inside of your cross over I would be willing to bet is unbalanced circuitry, 1/2 the circuit costs 1/2 as much to produce. You will not loose anything by giving your crossover a clean, noise free unbalanced signal.
If you do wish or need to run balanced, there is plenty of information in any opamp cookbook or application notes from any opamp manufacturer. Three NE5532 opamps, a box, some caps and resistors, some connectors and a power supply is all you need. Could be done for $20.00
It really all depends on the size of your wallet. Some people will tell you you need to spend $200.00 on cable. I have used Belden 9451 on very long microphone runs and it worked quite well. Buy the equipment you like, try it and if it is too noisey, then you can look for a balanced solution.
Enjoy,
Aud_Mot
Woah! A B*hringer mixer and Ashly processing / Crown MA amps downstream? I think you have a budget mismatch here! I'd take a look at the Rane DJ mixers, or anything that has the proper balanced output 'natively', as this will put you into the right price range for your requirements. It sounds like you have some excellent PA equipment, and it would be a great shame not to support this with a decent source signal. B*hringer is _not_ the way to go.
Hope this helps, and good luck moving some earth with that 5000VZ!
Tim
<B*hringer and Macrotechs indeed, mutter mutter!>
Hi,
In electromagnetic noisy environment (clubs lights etc) the best way to me is using some sort of DI-box (1:1 ratio) witch isolate DJ console ground and amplifiers system ground and witch convert unbalanced signal to balanced (especially if those interconnects are longer than 1m or so). DI-box is connected with very short interconnects (10cm) to DJ console, and with some long balanced cable to amplifiers rack. I usually use Mogami cables, but any other brand will work, IMHO.
Regards
In electromagnetic noisy environment (clubs lights etc) the best way to me is using some sort of DI-box (1:1 ratio) witch isolate DJ console ground and amplifiers system ground and witch convert unbalanced signal to balanced (especially if those interconnects are longer than 1m or so). DI-box is connected with very short interconnects (10cm) to DJ console, and with some long balanced cable to amplifiers rack. I usually use Mogami cables, but any other brand will work, IMHO.
Regards
trwh said:
Hahaha, the purpose of the behringer is actually to help me practice my DJing skills. Sound quality is important, but for a "beginner" setup I think its more then sufficient. Right now I'm using a Spirit F1 board and thats not exactly anything like a DJ mixer, with 2 Pioneer CDJ100S players.
Oh yeah, this is my "hobby" DJ system, so far the only use its gotten is a "favor" wedding and a huge house party I threw last friday. Maybe I will one day start charging $, but right now I'm just happy with the sheer power of a PA system.
eRiCdWoNg said:
have a Look to this:
http://sound.westhost.com/project87.htm
or this:
http://blackwidowaudio.com/articles/InterBalunbal.pdf
or this:
http://blackwidowaudio.com/Projects/bwa_projects3.htm
I'm working on a similar project, create a 6 CH unbalanced to 6 CH balanced. I'm building a GainClone to drive my computer so I will use a 5CH Gainclone and the sub will be drived by a STK4048XI.
I already received 3 DRV134PA (for the driver part) and 3 INA134PA (for the receiver part).
In your case you should have a look in the DRV134PA that will convert your unbalanced RCA signal to balanced XLR signal and the chip is not costing a forture...=)
Francois
Rolls MB15
Rolls costs about $70.00
Behringer also has a mic pre for under $100.00 that will do the trick.
You could also pick up a Behringer MX series mixer with balanced +4dB outs and stereo RCA input for about the same money. You also get mic/line inputs for additional sources.
eRiCdWoNg said:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Rolls costs about $70.00
Behringer also has a mic pre for under $100.00 that will do the trick.
You could also pick up a Behringer MX series mixer with balanced +4dB outs and stereo RCA input for about the same money. You also get mic/line inputs for additional sources.
My solution would be a few ne5532s and a small toroid possibly to keep the system active. The circuits are relatively simple.
I would not recommend directly connecting high and low impedance inputs and outputs with a DJ mixer. From experience under live situations its just a pain and makes for irritating level mismatches. 6dB should not be a problem for most mixers, but I recently used this approach with an input to a peavy desk from my mixer and could output at no more than -15dB without clipping the desk. I never did find out why, but as soon as i located some inpedance convertors it was not a problem.
A DJ's position is often festooned with power and lighting cables especially if you do mobile shows - and the hum rejection of a balanced line can be invaluable. The cables are also a lot more robust and tug resistant if you use XLR which can also be a show lifesaver.
I highly recommend buying or making a DI box or 2.
I would not recommend directly connecting high and low impedance inputs and outputs with a DJ mixer. From experience under live situations its just a pain and makes for irritating level mismatches. 6dB should not be a problem for most mixers, but I recently used this approach with an input to a peavy desk from my mixer and could output at no more than -15dB without clipping the desk. I never did find out why, but as soon as i located some inpedance convertors it was not a problem.
A DJ's position is often festooned with power and lighting cables especially if you do mobile shows - and the hum rejection of a balanced line can be invaluable. The cables are also a lot more robust and tug resistant if you use XLR which can also be a show lifesaver.
I highly recommend buying or making a DI box or 2.
Me and a friend came across this- http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/drv134.html
What do you all think?
What do you all think?
eRiCdWoNg said:
Like a said in a previous message, this chip is our answer to your problem. you just need two of this chips and create a external convertor from RCA to XLR connection. Keep your connection as short as possible between your mixer and the convertor. Past the convertor it not a problem, XLR cable are made to have longer connection (just check the distance between the sound console and the stage in a live concert...impossible to do this with RCA or 1/4 TS (unbalanced 1/4 cable). With all the High Voltage cable for the lighting of the show. That why their use XLR and/or 1/4 TRS connection.
So do the same, use the DRV134 to convert you unbalanced signal into balanced and your set.
Francois
There is a similar discussion in the Pass Labs forum. There are a couple of clever curcuits in the thread.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2687
-David
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2687
-David
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