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Old 6th August 2013, 09:55 AM   #21
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Great info DF96! Thx!
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Old 6th August 2013, 10:36 PM   #22
ArtG is offline ArtG  United States
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In addition to the excellent Bateman articles, if you would like to read the original groundbreaking article on the subject of capacitor dielectric materials and the effect on audio circuitry, I suggest the following from 1980:
Picking Capacitors - Walter G. Jung and Richard Marsh

At least one and probably both of the authors "stop by" this board from time to time (probably sometimes thinking," O what have we done!")
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Old 6th August 2013, 10:51 PM   #23
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they are both here.....
at least those boutique cap vendors have them to thank for giving them good business...
i guess that the real challenge to designers is to come up with good sounding amps using generic technology caps...
planet10 needs your help: Let's help Ruth and Dave...http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plane...ml#post5010547[B
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Old 7th August 2013, 12:59 AM   #24
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The links to the Cyril Bateman Articles in Electronics World Magazine move around from time to time so you will need to do a search:

Measuring Speaker Cables: 1 Cyril Bateman Dec 1996 p925
Measuring Speaker Cables: 2 Cyril Bateman Jan 1997 p52
Measuring Speaker Cables: 3 Cyril Bateman Feb 1997 p119
Capacitor Distortion: Part 1 Cyril Bateman July 2002 p12 S
Capacitor Distortion: Part 2 Cyril Bateman Sept 2002 p16 S
Capacitor Distortion: Part 3 Cyril Bateman Oct 2002 p12 S
Capacitor Distortion: Part 4 Cyril Bateman Nov 2002 p40 S
Capacitor Distortion: Part 5 Cyril Bateman Dec 2002 p44 S
Capacitor Distortion: Part 6 Cyril Bateman Jan 2003 p44 S
Capacitor Sounds II: Part 1
Real-Time Hardware Cyril Bateman July 2003 p36 S
Capacitor Sounds II: Part 2
Distortion v Time v Bias Cyril Bateman Aug 2003 p46 S
Capacitor Sounds II: Part 3
Distortion Meter Cyril Bateman Sept 2003 p46 S
Capacitor and Amplifier Distortions Cyril Bateman Nov 2003 p44 S
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Old 7th August 2013, 02:47 AM   #25
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Well it seems my foolishness has engendered some great material and resources from you folks. Thank-you so much! I have read the Jung and Marsh article before - influenced my decisions.

I'm going to dive into this head-on and get to the bottom of understanding the results I got with my silly-'scope measurements, and I'll report back. That's what I'm doing tonight. No wife/kids, just electronics...geez! Sigh.
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Old 7th August 2013, 03:00 AM   #26
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By the way DF96 - what terrific articles Bateman wrote! Here's the first one:



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Old 7th August 2013, 03:23 AM   #27
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Location: Canandaigua, NY USA
I've no idea what circuit you're using but you can't drive a large capacitor with a 10 kHz square (or any other) wave because it looks pretty much like a short circuit at that frequency. At best, you're probably burning in (burning up?) your signal generator.

Ignoring the whole issue of whether burn-in does anything, caps in audio circuits should not have any audio voltage across them, unless used for eq like RIAA phono circuits. Coupling caps in particular need to be large enough so as not to have significant impedance at audio frequencies.

That means that burn-in by trying to impress a large audio signal across a coupling cap is a fundamentally flawed concept. At best you can limit the current and force some current back and forth. Possibly you should be measuring current? I mention this because understanding the current flow will be a huge educational experience. I have a simple test with one resistor that will show you the difference between electrolytics, though probably not the films you're using without some exotic equipment.

IMO, the boutique caps people talk about are often too small for the application. They get chosen due to availability of Teflon or other dielectrics in practical values, not necessarily what the circuit really needs. It's not surprising they sound different when people often compare different value caps in a region where they affect the response and phase.
I may be barking up the wrong tree, but at least I'm barking!
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Old 7th August 2013, 08:03 PM   #28
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Hi Conrad, thanks for the informative post. I would be interested in the current test you mentioned. Can you post the specifics?

I've got my signal generator hooked up to a mic preamp, so I don't think I'm putting it at risk (it's going into a Green pre I built from PeterC at groupdiy.com).

I am curious then why many claim that their systems sound different after caps have "burned in" for a couple hundred hours...



Last edited by PhrazeMaster; 7th August 2013 at 08:21 PM.
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Old 7th August 2013, 09:16 PM   #29
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Originally Posted by PhrazeMaster
I am curious then why many claim that their systems sound different after caps have "burned in" for a couple hundred hours...
More likely to be their ears 'burning in' after a slight change in frequency response due to a slight change in cap value.
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Old 7th August 2013, 09:18 PM   #30
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lol ok
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