What the ? - Odd Capacitor Results - Page 3 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Design & Build > Parts

Parts Where to get, and how to make the best bits. PCB's, caps, transformers, etc.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 6th August 2013, 09:55 AM   #21
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Great info DF96! Thx!
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th August 2013, 10:36 PM   #22
ArtG is offline ArtG  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Central PA
In addition to the excellent Bateman articles, if you would like to read the original groundbreaking article on the subject of capacitor dielectric materials and the effect on audio circuitry, I suggest the following from 1980:
Picking Capacitors - Walter G. Jung and Richard Marsh

At least one and probably both of the authors "stop by" this board from time to time (probably sometimes thinking," O what have we done!")
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th August 2013, 10:51 PM   #23
AJT is offline AJT  Philippines
diyAudio Moderator
 
AJT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Palatiw, Pasig City
they are both here.....
at least those boutique cap vendors have them to thank for giving them good business...
i guess that the real challenge to designers is to come up with good sounding amps using generic technology caps...
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2013, 12:59 AM   #24
diyAudio Member
 
Speedskater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lakewood, Ohio
The links to the Cyril Bateman Articles in Electronics World Magazine move around from time to time so you will need to do a search:

Measuring Speaker Cables: 1 Cyril Bateman Dec 1996 p925
Measuring Speaker Cables: 2 Cyril Bateman Jan 1997 p52
Measuring Speaker Cables: 3 Cyril Bateman Feb 1997 p119
Capacitor Distortion: Part 1 Cyril Bateman July 2002 p12 S
Capacitor Distortion: Part 2 Cyril Bateman Sept 2002 p16 S
Capacitor Distortion: Part 3 Cyril Bateman Oct 2002 p12 S
Capacitor Distortion: Part 4 Cyril Bateman Nov 2002 p40 S
Capacitor Distortion: Part 5 Cyril Bateman Dec 2002 p44 S
Capacitor Distortion: Part 6 Cyril Bateman Jan 2003 p44 S
Capacitor Sounds II: Part 1
Real-Time Hardware Cyril Bateman July 2003 p36 S
Capacitor Sounds II: Part 2
Distortion v Time v Bias Cyril Bateman Aug 2003 p46 S
Capacitor Sounds II: Part 3
Distortion Meter Cyril Bateman Sept 2003 p46 S
Capacitor and Amplifier Distortions Cyril Bateman Nov 2003 p44 S
__________________
Kevin
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2013, 02:47 AM   #25
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Well it seems my foolishness has engendered some great material and resources from you folks. Thank-you so much! I have read the Jung and Marsh article before - influenced my decisions.

I'm going to dive into this head-on and get to the bottom of understanding the results I got with my silly-'scope measurements, and I'll report back. That's what I'm doing tonight. No wife/kids, just electronics...geez! Sigh.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2013, 03:00 AM   #26
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
By the way DF96 - what terrific articles Bateman wrote! Here's the first one:

http://www.waynekirkwood.com/Images/...und_Part_1.pdf

Thanks,

Mike
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2013, 03:23 AM   #27
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Canandaigua, NY USA
I've no idea what circuit you're using but you can't drive a large capacitor with a 10 kHz square (or any other) wave because it looks pretty much like a short circuit at that frequency. At best, you're probably burning in (burning up?) your signal generator.

Ignoring the whole issue of whether burn-in does anything, caps in audio circuits should not have any audio voltage across them, unless used for eq like RIAA phono circuits. Coupling caps in particular need to be large enough so as not to have significant impedance at audio frequencies.

That means that burn-in by trying to impress a large audio signal across a coupling cap is a fundamentally flawed concept. At best you can limit the current and force some current back and forth. Possibly you should be measuring current? I mention this because understanding the current flow will be a huge educational experience. I have a simple test with one resistor that will show you the difference between electrolytics, though probably not the films you're using without some exotic equipment.

IMO, the boutique caps people talk about are often too small for the application. They get chosen due to availability of Teflon or other dielectrics in practical values, not necessarily what the circuit really needs. It's not surprising they sound different when people often compare different value caps in a region where they affect the response and phase.
__________________
May the root sum of the squares of the Forces be with you.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2013, 08:03 PM   #28
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Hi Conrad, thanks for the informative post. I would be interested in the current test you mentioned. Can you post the specifics?

I've got my signal generator hooked up to a mic preamp, so I don't think I'm putting it at risk (it's going into a Green pre I built from PeterC at groupdiy.com).

I am curious then why many claim that their systems sound different after caps have "burned in" for a couple hundred hours...

Thanks,

Mike

Last edited by PhrazeMaster; 7th August 2013 at 08:21 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2013, 09:16 PM   #29
DF96 is offline DF96  England
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhrazeMaster
I am curious then why many claim that their systems sound different after caps have "burned in" for a couple hundred hours...
More likely to be their ears 'burning in' after a slight change in frequency response due to a slight change in cap value.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2013, 09:18 PM   #30
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
lol ok
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
odd 3way vs odd 4 way? Docks Multi-Way 4 13th August 2011 08:50 AM
Odd toroid and odd issue...help...please!! mpmarino Parts 31 2nd January 2009 11:58 PM
hooking up a capacitor backwards results in? truckramrod Parts 3 26th April 2007 03:47 AM
Got some odd looking caps... maxw Parts 4 25th November 2005 08:50 AM
Odd value capacitor ? vinay Multi-Way 1 15th April 2002 08:52 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:06 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2