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Old 8th June 2013, 04:36 AM   #1
edwyun is offline edwyun  United States
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Default Recapping XO - but which caps?

I'm recapping some speaker XOs with the following OEM values:

HF/MF XO:
4.7uF 160V polypropylene
10uF 160V polypropylene
26uF 70V bipolar electrolytic
10uF 70 V bipolar electrolytic

LF XO:
150uF 70V bipolar electrolytic

I'm familiar with Sonicaps and Mundorf Silver/Oil. From your experience, what other caps should I be considering?
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Old 8th June 2013, 05:27 AM   #2
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Not being one to have tried expensive caps, I'd be concentrating more on matching the caps than necessarily getting better ones. Matched as in left and right are very close in value (even if they are not exactly the nominal value).

You could look at replacing the electrolytics with polyprops, at least the smaller value ones shouldn't be too much of an issue size and cost wise. However one thing to be wary about is that electrolytics will have much higher ESR which can depening on the use, act in your favour in that it can damp resonances, which will likely show up if you replace with a polyprop cap.

I used the Axon true caps in my crossover, I think that they are excellent value for money, especially if you are thinking of replacing electros with them AXON True Cap Metallized Polypropylene Capacitors Part connexion also offer a matching service, I think for $1 additional per pair. If you did run into peaking problems on replacing the electro's with polyprops, you could probably insert some low value resistors (say 1/2 ohm) in series with them. Note it is most likely to have issues when used in the shunt leg.

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Old 8th June 2013, 09:59 PM   #3
xjr100 is offline xjr100  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwyun View Post
I'm recapping some speaker XOs
What is the speaker you recapping?
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Old 8th June 2013, 11:37 PM   #4
edwyun is offline edwyun  United States
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I will need a pair of each of the caps so I was budgeting several hundred for the project if need be. I will certainly try to get matched caps L + R.

The HF/MF XO is critical but the LF XO is not so much (as it sometimes will be bypassed when biamping).

I was considering updating but not changing the electrolytics for the reasons you mention.

The speakers are the B&W 802/3. If everything works out, then the B&W 805 as well.
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Old 9th June 2013, 09:29 AM   #5
xjr100 is offline xjr100  Europe
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Originally Posted by edwyun View Post
The speakers are the B&W 802/3. If everything works out, then the B&W 805 as well.
Here are service manuals - it can be helpful.
B&W Group North America Service & Support - Service Manuals

What is exact models? 802D, Matrix 802, Matrix 802 S2, Matrix 802 S3, N802 ?

Edit: According values of your caps it seems that it is Matrix 802 S3:
http://bwgroupsupport.com/downloads/...02%20S3-TM.pdf
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Last edited by xjr100; 9th June 2013 at 09:39 AM. Reason: adding info
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Old 9th June 2013, 10:23 AM   #6
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Just make sure you match the capacitance and the ESR of the caps you replace, not matching the ESR will lead to the response being 'all over the place'.

Too many people assume 'different' is better. It's unlikely you will hit on a better Xo function than the one B&W arrived simply by throwing boutique caps of the correct nominal value into the crossover.

I swapped on bipolar lytics on a few pairs of speakers where they were used on the bass, and matched with the correct capacitance and additional resistance to match the old caps- there was no audible difference. (Yamaha NS1000m, B&W 802 Matrix.)
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Old 9th June 2013, 10:28 AM   #7
xjr100 is offline xjr100  Europe
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Here is my suggestions: Auricap XO 200V capacitors:
(for you it is easy to get it from local store in US)

HF XO:
4.7uF 160V polypropylene -> 4.7uF Auricap XO
10uF 160V polypropylene -> 10uF Auricap XO

MF XO:
26uF 70V bipolar electrolytic -> 20+2.7+3.3 Auricap XO
10uF 70 V bipolar electrolytic -> 10uF Auricap XO

LF XO:
150uF 70V bipolar electrolytic -> you can try this with Mundorf MCap400 150uF or electrolytic, I suggest Mundorf "Plain" BG50 electrolytics 47+47+47+10

Also you can replace all resistors to Mundorf MOX 10W and internal wiring to Auric hook-up 18AWG. For mid and tweeter - single wire and for bass and terminals - double.
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Old 9th June 2013, 04:27 PM   #8
edwyun is offline edwyun  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sq225917 View Post
Just make sure you match the capacitance and the ESR of the caps you replace, not matching the ESR will lead to the response being 'all over the place'.

Too many people assume 'different' is better. It's unlikely you will hit on a better Xo function than the one B&W arrived simply by throwing boutique caps of the correct nominal value into the crossover.
Yeah, that was my concern. Thanks to all.
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Old 9th June 2013, 05:28 PM   #9
xjr100 is offline xjr100  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sq225917 View Post
It's unlikely you will hit on a better Xo function than the one B&W arrived simply by throwing boutique caps of the correct nominal value into the crossover.
Current B&W models are full of boutique caps: 80xD are with Mundorf Supremes, Supreme Silver/Golds but with B&W logo, CM9 use Mundorf Supreme, etc.
Open service manual for current models and look what type of caps and where B&W use - simply follow what they do nowadays.

So, do not be so skeptical about recapping. The only thing what could be - probably there will be required some comparison with different caps in different places, it can take time and money, but the result will be definitely better than with original caps.
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Old 9th June 2013, 10:02 PM   #10
KBK is offline KBK  Canada
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The BOTL (Bottom Of The line) poly caps from Mundorf have emerged as my current favorite cheap poly film cap. Before, it was the Solen caps, which are a bit grainy sounding in comparison. This is the Mundorf M-Cap MKP series i'm speaking about.
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