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Old 15th February 2013, 03:23 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kindhornman View Post
DF96,
This is no different than those who truly believe in the boutique capacitors. As I have stated here and in other threads I have actually seen some of the high end brand names wound on the exact same machines with the same films as the standard capacitors. The only differences were as simple as a nice pretty wrapper and at best I saw some that used a braided lead-out wire instead of a solid lead. They looked pretty but the electrical properties were identical. The only thing that some of these manufacturers had to pay for was the different film wrapper cover and a simple pad printer artwork change. It was a fraud to say the least, but it wasn't the actual capacitor manufacturer making the claims just the sellers of the parts.
I couldn't agree more. As long as the value of the capacitor, including the temperature range and internal impedance meets the specifications, don't waste your money with over priced rip-off components!

Last edited by JonSnell Electronic; 15th February 2013 at 03:24 PM. Reason: Grammar
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Old 15th February 2013, 03:34 PM   #22
JMFahey is offline JMFahey  Argentina
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I started reading the "HHHF" site linked above and had to stop because it gave me headache.

As in that "capacitors need burn-in to achieve their real sound"?
Written as:
Quote:
they need a much longer burn-in time than most capacitors, in the beginning they are rather aggressive. ..... They are well detailed but I find the midrange a little under exposed, ...... Spatiality is good, probably due to the highlighted top-end but only average separation.
C'mon, gimme a break !!!

Tell me that about wine/cheese/whisky/chili/etc. and I'll believe you.
Those are organic products, with *live* organisms doing their stuff inside along the way, chemical reactions in process modifying the food, etc. ..... but on plastic + metal capacitors?

I doubt they'll change 5% their rated value or properties in, say, 10 years.
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Old 15th February 2013, 03:58 PM   #23
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JM.
Very correct these are not electrolytic capacitors we are talking about here. I would like to know what the failure mode of a film caps even is. Do they actually fail unless the lead breaks or the voltage is much to high and damages the film?
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Old 15th February 2013, 04:00 PM   #24
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Strangely, Doug Self did find some very tiny burn-in effects in some capacitors. Difficult to measure, and definitely of no consequence for audio.
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Old 15th February 2013, 04:07 PM   #25
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DF,
I would conjecture that the films may have very small irregularities in the film such as microscopic holes in the film. I think the film itself is made by a casting process and this could allow pin holes to form. I would think this would cause a slight localized leak between layers of the film and this may be what is normalizing in the caps over time.
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Old 15th February 2013, 04:15 PM   #26
SY is offline SY  United States
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Actually, these effects were only seen in PET caps. My guess is moisture effects since PET is much more hygroscopic than PP or PS, and water has outsize dielectric effects.
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Old 15th February 2013, 04:21 PM   #27
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMFahey View Post
I doubt they'll change 5% their rated value or properties in, say, 10 years.
What properties? Caps have many.
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Old 15th February 2013, 04:35 PM   #28
SY is offline SY  United States
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Originally Posted by Pano View Post
What properties?
Name it. I will bet my next paycheck that if you randomly select a 10 year old Wima or Panasonic PP cap out of my parts stash that it will be right in spec for capacitance, ESR, ESL, tan delta, you name it. I would not make the same bet for a paper-in-oil or an "audiophile" cap.
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Old 15th February 2013, 04:39 PM   #29
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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You don't think any of those properties (or distortion) change with "burn in" in film caps?
I remember seeing some tests years ago of film caps in power supplies that did show change. Gonna be hard to dig that one up, tho.
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Old 15th February 2013, 04:46 PM   #30
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Quote:
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Actually, these effects were only seen in PET caps.
Ah, my hero, CapMan.
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