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Old 6th March 2013, 03:07 AM   #101
SY is offline SY  United States
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Depends on the position in the circuit; for some parts, I use bipolar electrolytics, others I use polypropylene. Mass produced high quality name brands like Wima, Panasonic, CDE, Vishay, that sort of thing.

Of course, that's changing now with the advent of high quality digital crossovers- the speakers I'm working on now have no passive crossover at all.
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Old 6th March 2013, 03:22 AM   #102
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Depends on where one resides, and the intended use.
SS or Valve, Phono stage or Loudspeaker (crossover).
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Old 6th March 2013, 03:31 AM   #103
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I second what sy has said but I don't use any electrolytic capacitors in the passive crossover. I use polypro film capacitors and if the price was right I would use film and foil type. I stay away from Mylar, polyester capacitors though they are probably fine in bypass positions. I am as Sy now working with active crossovers, though I haven't jumped to digital implementation. But one thing that I will continue to use are conjugate network on the speaker terminals to correct the impedance curve of the devices. The conjugate crossover differs from a typical Zobel network which is an RC network, as the conjugate network is an RCL network.
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Old 6th March 2013, 04:13 AM   #104
JMFahey is offline JMFahey  Argentina
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Chiming in:
I use good commercial grade components, the ones that are made by the tens or hundreds of millions and have become "market leaders".

I trust 1000 times more a capacitor made by, say, Vishay, Epcos, or a similar *huge* producer on the most modern Factories on Earth, than anything made in a backroom by somebody cutting metal foil with tin snippers and handwinding it.

Couldn't care less that said foil is pure silver or gold, that paper is made of the finest silk that silkworms can produce and that oil came out Moby Dick.

As an example: this is a silver foil capacitor handmade at the famous Audio Note Lab in Tokyo, Japan .

They claim it took them 3 weeks to make it (don't believe me, just read the note):
Click the image to open in full size.

Here they are handmaking silver resistors:
Click the image to open in full size.

This is the machinery they have available:
Click the image to open in full size.

Now, let's compare that to capacitors made in ... India!!!
Surely the machines are pushed by Elephants while Turban clad , barefoot workers use wooden machines to make the capacitors, while singing "Hare Krishna" !!!

Sorry to burst a bubble, *this* is a (one of many) capacitor rolling machine used by (boring, available anywhere) EPCOS in their plant in Bawal, India:
(be sure to click the image so it zooms to full size, so you can see everything in detail):

Click the image to open in full size.

Sorry for having such a boring taste when choosing parts

PD: please read the original pages where I took these pictures from:
Audio Note Factory Tour [English]
http://http://www.epcos.com/web/gene...locale=en.html
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Old 6th March 2013, 12:21 PM   #105
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JM,

apparently for some, Hand-Made has more appeal than High-Tech.

Couple of months ago, I got me a chef's knife, made by hand in Japan.
Work of art, and something that can not be manufactured on an automated production line, yet.

Trouble with Boutique parts is that they have led to such a complex situation.

Manufacturers as Bower & Wilkins feel obliged to use Mundorf parts in their products.
On the other hand, in the electronic XO of their $100K sea-shell, B&W uses budget grade opamps.
What High-Anxiety customers fail to see is that e.g. a guy as Jacques Mahul has been paying attention to XO parts when he wasn't even graduated, and is doing mighty fine with his own-label caps/coils/resistors.

And then there's the entry level, with every characteristic of stamp collecting. (but without actual knowledge)
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Old 7th March 2013, 07:00 PM   #106
dre is offline dre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacco vermeulen View Post
Can you name an example of that in this thread ?
Cause I went through it again a couple of times, and I can't seem to find it anywhere.
I'm not going give examples, as that would be counter productive to my intentions: having an open discussions where ideas and experience are exchanged in stead of opinions. To learn from each other in stead of making marks in that sand. The latter might only make the poster of such remarks feel better, but it will also reject people. What's the point of writing on a forum if one is not interested in other peoples writing? I'll let the posters themselves value their own postings. They ought to be wise enough.

I also reread the postings in this thread and I'll change "a lot of ridiculing" in "some ridiculing"
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Old 7th March 2013, 07:13 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by jacco vermeulen View Post
Can you please define (non-)believer ?

As I consider myself a firm believer in High Grade parts, both in type and brand.
I notice a divide between believers and non believers. For lack of any other better word I use the word believers. But it's also based on the lack of a proper explanation, the thing I'm after (in all honesty). Neither from manufacturers (vendors?) nor from the users. The claims seem to be based mostly on hearsay and dogma.
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Old 7th March 2013, 11:09 PM   #108
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Difficulty is that a couple of decades ago, non-believers (engineers) were convinced that mylar was good enough, in any position.
Some still do, even in this club.

When the "Nons" did alter their opinion, it led to "stack"-piling of polypropylene caps, and a new trend : Bypassing Unlimited.

Even today, some of the non-believers in exotic foil caps think they are on track with all Ins-and-Outs, and go for High Grade industrial.
Example : Boulder 1008 phono stage, retails for $12K in the US, for you it's €14K.

Boulder proudly claims they're using the best NOS polystyrene caps.
HooHa, with four selectable equalization curves, and a programmed chip to make the relays lock into firing position.

Eeeh, but why do I only see junk PS caps ?
(it's not like the thing runs valves, by which it requires equalization caps with a rating of several hundreds of volts, right ?)
Hint, only ones that come close are the Big & Bad & Blue ones, Philly production.

Easy for me to say, I've been eyeballing PS caps for 3 decades, and got about 15.000 of the finest polystyrene caps ever manufactured.
Industrial ones, by Siemens, ITT and others, for high frequency stuff, and SOTA.
Added a piccy of the real thing for phono.
(and let's not talk $32K- €42.5K of Boulder 2008)

Today's idiot-sans-savant can be tomorrow's chief-design-engineer.
(what's in a word, both have 3, so no big a difference)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Boulder1008.jpg (171.4 KB, 146 views)
File Type: jpg MBL 6010 phono card.jpg (44.4 KB, 83 views)
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Last edited by jacco vermeulen; 7th March 2013 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 7th March 2013, 11:39 PM   #109
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I find capacitors finished in wood give the best tone.

http://www.dhtrob.com/keesolaf/elco_en.php
|| DHTRob - Tubeamplifiers and fullrange units: Rebuilding a capacitor (1) ||
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Old 8th March 2013, 11:22 AM   #110
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacco vermeulen
Difficulty is that a couple of decades ago, non-believers (engineers) were convinced that mylar was good enough, in any position.
Some still do, even in this club.
These days, most engineers are aware that Mylar (polyester) is a slightly non-linear dielectric so has to be used with care. On the other hand, some 'believers' seem to prefer its mild distortion (while vehemently denying this).
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