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Old 13th February 2013, 06:51 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valve5425 View Post
I'm a poor pensioner!!!!! I just wanted to sell them as NOS so I could eat this week but you make a good point about trying them in circuit. I don't think I'll chop them up just yet though.

Dean
If you solder the caps you have to sell as used and lose a lot of money.
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Old 13th February 2013, 06:53 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob41 View Post
Okay, show of hands. Who here sells Black Gates?
Who here guess.
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Old 13th February 2013, 06:55 PM   #33
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Originally Posted by Rob41 View Post
I'm only guessing, but if they are real that would mean a different process/set-up was used for the print which doesn't necessarily seem impossible.
like said, I have 100% originals with differences between the sizes
and smaller ones with rubber sealing
bigger ones with brown plate closing

like I said, I think it was a proto type devellopment production, which could explain some differences
but sure hope you are not going to sell Black Gate crap to members here
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Old 13th February 2013, 07:10 PM   #34
Rob41 is offline Rob41  United States
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I'm sure there can be a lot of differences between originals. But, with as many fake transistors and capacitors as there are out there, is it really impossible that there could also be fake Black Gates out there?

valve 5425 could just have two originals that happen to be out of spec. It's just unfortunate there is no way to tell if they are real other than taking them apart.

At least you've got two 85uF caps if you need them.
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Old 13th February 2013, 07:15 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
like said, I have 100% originals with differences between the sizes
and smaller ones with rubber sealing
bigger ones with brown plate closing

like I said, I think it was a proto type devellopment production, which could explain some differences
but sure hope you are not going to sell Black Gate crap to members here
Rest assured that unless I'm 100% convinced that the 100uf FK's are genuine they won't get sold, hence this thread! Anybody knowingly pushing fakes needs a dose of 1000v HT applied to specific areas. (sorry moderator)
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Old 13th February 2013, 07:17 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob41 View Post
I'm sure there can be a lot of differences between originals. But, with as many fake transistors and capacitors as there are out there, is it really impossible that there could also be fake Black Gates out there?

valve 5425 could just have two originals that happen to be out of spec. It's just unfortunate there is no way to tell if they are real other than taking them apart.

At least you've got two 85uF caps if you need them.
I'll second that Rob41.
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Old 13th February 2013, 07:20 PM   #37
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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man, guys, honestly, look at new caps with latest technology from Nichicon, NIC's, or whatever
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Old 13th February 2013, 07:43 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
man, guys, honestly, look at new caps with latest technology from Nichicon, NIC's, or whatever
The crazy thing is I've had these lying around for years and never used them! Most of the stuff I build is tube gear and uses PIO or film caps. I've a tub of used Blackgates I acquired when prices were low and just slot them in if there's an appropriate value. The current prices are quite frankly ridiculous and as such I can't justify having them lying around gathering dust. Mind you, if I hung onto them another 20 years I might be able to swap them for a car!

I'm currently waiting for the Subbu DAC group buy to come to fruition but even with that I'll just be putting in bog standard components initially. I take all claims as to what is or isn't the best with a pinch of salt as it's such a subjective thing. (that doesn't mean I haven't taken on board or don't appreciate your suggestions) Sometimes people think things sound fantastic just because they've paid a lot for it! Been there myself and then realised I've been kidding myself.

Just want to thank everyone again for their input.
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Old 14th February 2013, 03:10 PM   #39
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My local importer (HK) told me long ago that he was ordering all Blackgates "directly" from Japan suppliers , that was the only way to get real ones . He is 98% out of stocks for every value now !
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Old 15th February 2013, 01:37 PM   #40
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Not tried reforming the suspect 100uf FK's yet. I'll get that done over the weekend then I can be more sure as to the authenticity of these caps.

Some more photos below showing different print layouts. This info from a batch of around 35 new/used capacitors of various values. These were purchased more than ten years ago at a time when I wouldn't have thought it financially viable to fake them.

Generally "Rubycon" appears to be the same length as "Black Gate" but not always the case. See the 330uf 100v NP's and the 150uf 350v VK.

There appear to be two different fonts, one looking bolder than the other. Subtle, but there all the same. Difference in colouring as well, one brighter and "more gold" than the other although the photos may not show this very well. Don't think this would be down to natural fading or temperature effects.

Different case size for same value, 220uf 100v standard? Anybody else found this? Seems a little suspect to me!

All end caps the same, silver "K", except high voltage VK which has plain black plastic base.

Leads caps either orange/brown Tufnol style or grey/black, grooved rubber. The Tufnol caps vary in colour. Looking at photos of BG's on Google, I'm seeing mainly grooved grey/black style caps so are the Tufnol ones genuine?

Most values are within 3-10% tolerance, a couple around 11%.

Weights of caps don't seem to vary more than 1-3% between matching values.

Not sure if this info is of use to anyone but if people can have a look at their own stock, which they know to be genuine, then maybe it will help in a small way to identifying any possible fakes out there!
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