I'm in with SY, I don't wanna use "fool's gold" or "snake oil" terms BUT expensive binding posts, connector, silver wire in OPTs and many other similar things are just placebosthe only way a silver binding post will lead to a better sound than a copper is that electrons will get high of being passed from a jewelry
Garbage. Please define 'scientifically important'. I wasn't aware of the barrage of DBT testing done on the audibility of binding posts, or on any individual components including caps and cables, etc. I love how people are always going on and on like there's this indisputable body of evidence to back up their claims. But there isn't. There's no there there.
And leave psychology out of it. You can't complain about lack of science and then run to a subjective discipline like psychology as an answer. That makes even less sense.
Unless you're an expert in that and all other fields.
Oh right, it's the internet. Everyone's an expert.
Isn't "designed" a bit of a strong word to use there?
I would argue that, if one's willing to put up with single-pole points of contact (as opposed to getting four or even eight in one go, with a proper Speakon), the "euroblock" style
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with the flat screw “tip” pushing the wire against a metal bar, is superior to the standard American barrier strip
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Wherein the wire is secured to a flat metal bar by the screw-head, and there is only minimal structure to prevent stray strands from wandering..
(Unless one, as speaker dave notes, uses spade lugs terminated with care to avoid stray strands.)
Which goes to the general point that the choices here are in the realms of cosmetics and ergonomics, not sonics.
That could indeed be very important here – IF the UHF spectrum were in the audio band.
That hinges entirely on one’s definition of the word “reputable.”
Given the nonsense they spew in their propaganda, it is hard to see how the word “reputable” is appropriate for Cardas, or any other “audiophile” wire marketer.
I say you are worrying about things you should not worry about. That's a large part of this hobby, worrying. If it makes you feel better, get the most expensive binding posts you can afford. There are many audio companies that will be glad to take your money.
Audio-nervosa fuels the industry.
I often wonder if people who obsess about non-issues such as binding posts ever actually enjoy music. (Perhaps if they used proper Speakons, they'd have more time to actually listen to music.)
Actually, there has. An intelligent person can reasonably make such inferences from the existing body of DBT’s. For example, take the infamous Nousaine/Maki/Zipser test, in which the late Miami audio dealer Steve Zipser was unable to hear any difference, in his own reference system with his own musical selections he claimed were revealing, between a pair of then-flagship Pass Labs monoblocs and an older Yamaha integrated amp, with the volume control of the Yammy used to level match the two. Among the differences in the two amps were the binding posts. Yet, again, no differences were detected when the dealer didn’t know whether he was listening to his ugly space-heaters or the humble midfi integrated.
Fact of the matter is, every DBT between amplifiers has also been a DBT of each amp's binding posts.
There isn't, because there's zero plausibility to the stories and story-tellers don't like to run experiments which could contradict their stories. So... it's reasonable to go with the same electronic principles that allow us to drop spacecraft on Neptune, image tumors in bodies, and measure the diameters of atoms.
They have products. Things like binding posts are hardware. Simple not complicated. They have been making stuff for decades now. If they were not reputable, they'd be long gone, like so many others. That's my take. Ignore the marketeering hype. They make *copper* binding posts.
There are two people in that statement that I know something about. Steve Zipser was from NYC. I knew him from before he was known by anyone. What he heard or did not hear is pretty much irrelevant, then as now. As far as one of the other two mentioned, one I don't know at all, the other I would not consider to be authoritative on any subject, although he has hyped his point of view ad nauseum for decades. Having received one of his ABX test CDs I can say for certainty that the source material used was well selected to make 100% certain that nobody on any system could possibly hear any differences. My opinion, of course.
Whatever that infamous "test" was, it is meaningless and irrelevant except to the extent that it illustrates the size of egos in the audio world. In my opinion, of course.
And yes, every audio DBT is very likely both of a highly flawed methodology as well as a test of all sorts of uncontrolled variables, including binding posts. Which means mostly that so-called DBTs are only valid for the test and test conditions during the test. Generalizing beyond that is stepping into quicksand and sliding the slippery slope. In my opinion, of course.
My opinion is of course quite irrelevant and meaningless as well.
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I just squeeze the crimp terminals, and solder ...that's the proper way ... and preferably use tinned copper whereever it's possible
Splitting hairs: The very expensive AMP crimpers , the ones that left three little dimples in the crimp, produced a cold weld that was superior to soldering. Unfortunately, these are $800 crimpers for the cheap manual ones; production were pneumatic. They were Mil Spec certified. Of course, Mil Spec is just a spec, not a grantee of good design. Just it was known what it was. I have not seen any of these in about 35 years. So I use my $80 ones and solder. The best way is to use un-insulated lugs so you can heat sink at the wire end and not get wicking that can lead to fatigue cracks. Then a flexible boot or heat shrink. Handy tip if you are building spacecraft.
My old Tanburgs came with internally attached speaker wires. As was mentioned, the best connector is no connector. It can't fail.
I just squeeze the crimp terminals, and solder ...that's the proper way ... and preferably use tinned copper whereever it's possible
Totally 100% agree
Also id never buy the silver type (nickel plate?) i used gold plated copper types (or at least coppery types). Cheap. The plate the come with is naff. Theyve lasted 8 odd years of my fiddling without damage. Id use brass but theyre hard to find. Also my mums LS3/5A terminals are fine. Go figure lol. Just strip your wires now and then...Heck id just use a 16 amp 'choc' block if i had no concern with appearance. Ive got some nice hard plastic 400V types i could use...
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Pallis,
I use both kinds. Euroblock is the way to go to butt two wires. The old US style is better when you are using ring or spade lugs. You can put two lugs below each screw reliably. Three gets ugly and you need longer screws. Neither should ever be used with un-tinned stranded wire. When I can get the ones with a single screw and a post out the back I use them. Otherwise I bring a solid wire through the back of one row of screw holes and solder it to the plate. Same effect. All of the euro-block bars I have bought seem about he same quality (just fine) , where there are big differences in quality of the US style terminal strips.
If I was worried about cosmetics on the speaker rear, I think I would recess the connector add put a cover plate over it.
Crossover trick: I cut up about 50 positions out of the euro-blocks. I use them for prototyping crossovers. I found my bundle of EZ-clip jumpers did not always give a reliable enough connection and made measurements erratic.
I use both kinds. Euroblock is the way to go to butt two wires. The old US style is better when you are using ring or spade lugs. You can put two lugs below each screw reliably. Three gets ugly and you need longer screws. Neither should ever be used with un-tinned stranded wire. When I can get the ones with a single screw and a post out the back I use them. Otherwise I bring a solid wire through the back of one row of screw holes and solder it to the plate. Same effect. All of the euro-block bars I have bought seem about he same quality (just fine) , where there are big differences in quality of the US style terminal strips.
If I was worried about cosmetics on the speaker rear, I think I would recess the connector add put a cover plate over it.
Crossover trick: I cut up about 50 positions out of the euro-blocks. I use them for prototyping crossovers. I found my bundle of EZ-clip jumpers did not always give a reliable enough connection and made measurements erratic.
This also concurs with my experience. Ive made up devices and cabling using some amphenol stuff (think theyre mil spec). Thats exactly what id do. Bare crimp, solder with croc clip heat sink, heatshrink. Most of my cabling has to survive rough treatment and oil saturation (through abuse rather than necessity). And true, decent crimpers cost £sss. The bootlace crimps are, well.....
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on the contrary
you can avoid chasing down a blind alley
and focus on what really matters instead
sure, if you have the money, why not
just don't believe its that important or critial to achieve good sound
I would say its more like mounting a fishing rod handle with diamonds
looks good, and worth every penny, or more
but if you try to convince your fishing friends that it also catches bigger fish, they will just shake their heads and laugh, as always
My experience is that every part contributes to the end result, question is how much is the influence of the separate part. In this case the binding post.
There are for example designers who state when you use copper then use everything made of copper,input connector to loudspeaker.
I can imagine there are thermocouple effects with different metals.
Wiring like copper has group-delay effects personally I think there we can find a answer on the cable effects. Carbon for example has no group-delay. The problem is not resistance losses it are other effects that cause sound differences. Deny it wont solve the question.
People who deny these effects, they better do not bother these kind of topics they are just ballast.
There are for example designers who state when you use copper then use everything made of copper,input connector to loudspeaker.
I can imagine there are thermocouple effects with different metals.
Wiring like copper has group-delay effects personally I think there we can find a answer on the cable effects. Carbon for example has no group-delay. The problem is not resistance losses it are other effects that cause sound differences. Deny it wont solve the question.
People who deny these effects, they better do not bother these kind of topics they are just ballast.
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I reckon that one originally comes from Japan...if you use silver, everything
must be silver
hey, remember all them screws must be non magnetic brass
but man, even when its true, and works...it will drive you nuts, and get you nowhere, really
you can trust me on that, it's a wild goose chase
been there, done that
Please. Just do a little exercise on paper. Draw the circuit. Every single piece of the output. Transformer, rectifier, caps, final stage, etc. Every connection, wire, relay, and component. Continue out the amp through the binding posts, cables up to the binding posts in question. Now continue on inside the speaker to the wires, connectors, coils, caps, resistors, and eventually down to the voice coil made of several Ohms of copper, or for some aluminum. Try to redraw it with all the parastatic components. Then come back and tell me the percent of copper in the binding point can be relevant beyond aesthetics. Sorry, hope or belief just don't change physics.
There are a lot of things we need to do to improve in our speakers. Things that make dramatic differences. Drivers, crossovers, even a lot of differences in opinion about high or low Q cabinet material, e.g MDF vs plywood arguments. Is 3/4 inch baffle radius really enough? Why can't we build a decent coaxial?
There are a lot of things we need to do to improve in our speakers. Things that make dramatic differences. Drivers, crossovers, even a lot of differences in opinion about high or low Q cabinet material, e.g MDF vs plywood arguments. Is 3/4 inch baffle radius really enough? Why can't we build a decent coaxial?
yes it does make a difference
just pray and hope you won't depend too much on it
and btw, if you depend on it, and don't have the right revealing sound and reproduction of music without 'it', then you do have cloudy speakers
so... if you think carefully about it, it's really the other way round
I reckon that one originally comes from Japan...if you use silver, everything
must be silver
hey, remember all them screws must be non magnetic brass
but man, even when its true, and works...it will drive you nuts, and get you nowhere, really
you can trust me on that, it's a wild goose chase
been there, done that
just minimize components.