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Old 5th February 2013, 12:17 PM   #161
yai is offline yai  Germany
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yes, that's right, banana plugs (single or dual) are forbidden for audio use, as the overcautious european bureaucracy fears that someone (kids?) might plug them into a mains outlet. But: you may not sell them for audio use, but privately, in their own homes, everybody uses them.

Last edited by yai; 5th February 2013 at 12:18 PM. Reason: spelling ...
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Old 5th February 2013, 01:55 PM   #162
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Euro outlets may have this problem, in the USA, there are two flat prongs... the round one is ground. in Eurozone they have great fears, and need to protect everyone, keep people very very safe, safe, safe, safe.


PS. here in the USA, kids stick paper clips and screwdrivers into the AC outlets... I know this from personal

PPS. we need to ban paper clips and screwdrivers!!
_-_-bear -- Btw, I don't actually know anything, FYI -- every once in a while I say something that makes sense... ]

Last edited by bear; 5th February 2013 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 5th February 2013, 03:38 PM   #163
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Yes I remember my first lesson on wall outlets and what they can do. I thought that my clicker relay for learning Morse Code would sound much louder if I plugged it into the wall. Boom........ Lot's of sparks. Only took once......
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Old 7th February 2013, 08:12 AM   #164
yai is offline yai  Germany
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Hey, we used to take a big onion (or orange or lemon or whatever has enough electrolyte), stuck two forks in it (should not touch each other, of course), stuck the forks in two empty beer bottles (isolators), and connected the forks two 220V mains. Besides of the strange smell: did you ever see fruit or vegetables glow in the dark? So now you know, why banana plugs should fit into mains outlet. Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 15th June 2013, 03:57 AM   #165
KBK is offline KBK  Canada
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I use copper binding posts if binding posts are the device that must be used. I've used the speak-ons before and do definitely like them. Really cuts down the chances of blowing stuff up and very high quality contact, as well.


IMO and IME, when you begin to take care of all of the sources of noise, you will begin to hear the difference that copper binding posts make, over that of brass.

Isn't it funny how some say it makes no difference, when others can clearly hear it.

Then the research article comes along, the research done at Rockefeller university, about how some people in their test can essentially hear about 15x times better than theory suggests is the limit. Yet, that was their test, and not one audiophile among them. This suggests that some here might be well beyond that '15x better than theory' number that they found.

Yet some folks here can't accept that and still insist it makes no difference.

People are better at sports, or driving, or math, or whatever the case is. yet, some minds...some can't be better at hearing than others.

A seriously bad disconnect, it is. Makes no difference - my ***.

If you can't hear it.... then.... stay out of the deep end of the pool until you learn to swim.


I say it that way as the brain is plastic and we learn over time. neural growth. We can and do learn to hear better. All the time. Every day. force of will. Do you want to learn how to hear better, or not?

Of course, this requires tools. expose yourself to extreme grade audio. make it yourself. turn the table on yourself and make the attempt-instead of being negative and dissing. Time and effort, and growing some smarts. Which kinda illustrates the dilemma, does it not?

Last edited by KBK; 15th June 2013 at 04:07 AM.
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Old 15th June 2013, 04:08 AM   #166
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Brass Phooey! I'll bet you money that you can't tell 6 feet of copper from 6 feet of brass, or steel or a bucket of mud. Yes, mud. I've posted files, few can correctly identify them.
Take the Speaker Voltage Test!
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Old 15th June 2013, 06:35 AM   #167
Calvin is offline Calvin  Germany
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some say that everything makes a difference. I tend to agree, but with a big BUT. Over the complete signal chain there are numerous sound wheels You can turn at. The big wheels with great effect on the sonic outcome and where an improvement is a true or objective sonic improvement.
Then there are small wheels with low acoustic effect at the edge of personal taste. And lastly the tiny wheels with no objective or measurable effect but only subjective effect.
Before I think of turning the small or tiny wheels I would rather turn the big ones. After my experience it is rather more typical than not to find someone thinking about tuning his setup with certain ´special´ parts, but just one look reveals major deficiencies with much greater sonic impact.
To me, binding post belong into the category of tiny, or small at best, wheels.
Personally, I´m rather looking for practical/technical qualities.
I prefer the 4mm Banana system using MC-Contact due to the easy of handling and compactness. I also prefer the Speakon system due to its easy and idiot-proof handling. I prefer binding post with propeller-knobs due to the high, reliable contact pressure. I also prefer contacts with a hard scratch-resistant surface. I prefer connectors that make a tough, durable and mechanically reliable impression.
The last beeing the reason why I dislike lightweight plastic connectors such as Eichmann and some WBTs.
Admittedly though I had an experience with WBT at the CES2009 which gave me something to think of.
At that time WBT promoted their new ´lowmass´ connectors.
I just wanted to say hello, but was invited for an evaluation session to give my comments to their new connectors. Beeing rather technician than golden ear I expected to hear no or just very small differences.
I was surprised about the differences I got to hear. It didn´t open up ´new universes´ but it was still so significant that I nearly assumed them faking the test.
Simply because of cost issues I wouldn´t use them in any gear, but if I were heading for the top they´d be a first class contender.

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Old 15th June 2013, 09:04 AM   #168
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Although I agree with KBK that some have more articulate hearing that others, (my wife is one) and when I find something that I think I hear makes a difference, I go looking for an explanation. That said, I am also a systems engineer by trade. I follow advanced science topics for a hobby. I go as far as believing that quantum entanglement exists no matter how bizarre it seemed even to Einstein, BUT...

One more time. Draw out the entire path through which current flows. Start with the secondary windings and loop through the amp, through speaker, and back to the transformer. Do this while sober, and then tell my you actually believe the brass vs. copper in the binding post makes an audible difference. I will even give you the advantage of a fictional perfect recording as input. (Don't forget to include the crimp-on tin over brass fast-ons at the fuse holder) Please let me know; I have a bridge for sale.

I am not arguing that Berkeley Laurence National Lab could not construct an experiment to measure the difference. I am suggesting that all other factors being equal, it is not relevant in your listening experience.

There is a good news side of this argument. Unlike many of the esoteric speaker and connect cables, it won't hurt the sound. Now back to my crossover tweaking. I prefer to address the 99.99% part of the problem first.
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Old 15th June 2013, 09:23 AM   #169
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Brass should be better for a binding post. Being harder than copper it should give a better connection. Copper is soft so you can't get so much contact pressure. A weak connection could give you a copper oxide rectifier! I guess this would add some second harmonic, which some people would prefer.
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Old 15th June 2013, 10:24 AM   #170
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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Originally Posted by bear View Post
Euro outlets may have this problem, in the USA, there are two flat prongs... the round one is ground. in Eurozone they have great fears, and need to protect everyone, keep people very very safe, safe, safe, safe.


PS. here in the USA, kids stick paper clips and screwdrivers into the AC outlets... I know this from personal

PPS. we need to ban paper clips and screwdrivers!!
The UK's BS 1363 sockets have shuttered Live and Neutral receptacles.
The Earth Pin opens the shutters to allow the plug to be inserted fully.
All the pins are rectangular for good flat to flat conductor contact with a wipe action for self cleaning.
regards Andrew T.
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