Binding posts Brass vs Copper : does really makes differences ?

[mondogenerator]

I know not this FAA of which you speak (Slarty Bartfast), but in my experience crimping is used in panel wiring for speed more than anything, also spring terminals are generally used this side of the pond, and they Have to use bare wire, crimps are very unreliable in those terminals. Screw types which the US still use in the main are frowned upon since they rattle loose.

[wushuliu]

Originally Posted by oldies

I'm in with SY, I don't wanna use "fool's gold" or "snake oil" terms BUT expensive binding posts, connector, silver wire in OPTs and many other similar things are just placebos the only way a silver binding post will lead to a better sound than a copper is that electrons will get high of being passed from a jewelry it's physics laws, if someone is happier by spending alot of money for something which is not scientifically important, he/she might really hear a better sound because he believes so, it's all mind conditioning. that's it

Garbage. Please define 'scientifically important'. I wasn't aware of the barrage of DBT testing done on the audibility of binding posts, or on any individual components including caps and cables, etc. I love how people are always going on and on like there's this indisputable body of evidence to back up their claims. But there isn't. There's no there there.

And leave psychology out of it. You can't complain about lack of science and then run to a subjective discipline like psychology as an answer. That makes even less sense.

Unless you're an expert in that and all other fields.

Oh right, it's the internet. Everyone's an expert.

[a.wayne]

Originally Posted by mondogenerator

I know not this FAA of which you speak (Slarty Bartfast), but in my experience crimping is used in panel wiring for speed more than anything, also spring terminals are generally used this side of the pond, and they Have to use bare wire, crimps are very unreliable in those terminals. Screw types which the US still use in the main are frowned upon since they rattle loose.

they govern how planes are made ......

[tinitus]

I just squeeze the crimp terminals, and solder ...that's the proper way ... and preferably use tinned copper whereever it's possible

[Pallas]

Originally Posted by Pano

Propellor Posts

A friend of mine designed these. Closer to copper than brass. The tellurium is added to make it machinable. I own a few, I like them.

Isn't "designed" a bit of a strong word to use there?

Originally Posted by tvrgeek

Barrier strips. Heavy brass and brass screws. Nickle plated. Screw driver tight.

I would argue that, if one's willing to put up with single-pole points of contact (as opposed to getting four or even eight in one go, with a proper Speakon), the "euroblock" style

with the flat screw “tip” pushing the wire against a metal bar, is superior to the standard American barrier strip

Wherein the wire is secured to a flat metal bar by the screw-head, and there is only minimal structure to prevent stray strands from wandering..

(Unless one, as speaker dave notes, uses spade lugs terminated with care to avoid stray strands.)

Which goes to the general point that the choices here are in the realms of cosmetics and ergonomics, not sonics.

Originally Posted by davidsrsb

I am suspecting silver has some subtle problems, from the post I made earlier in post 51, an academic paper on measured silver suphide non linearity and this one from Tyco http://www.te.com/documentation/whit...s_503-1016.pdf
I have been plagued by non-linearities from silver plated N-type connectors on a uhf radio system I work on, causing intermodulation. The black tarnish is a semi-conductor, which punches through with silver metal nano-wires.

That could indeed be very important here – IF the UHF spectrum were in the audio band.

Originally Posted by bear

Also Cardas is a reputable company.

That hinges entirely on one’s definition of the word “reputable.”

Given the nonsense they spew in their propaganda, it is hard to see how the word “reputable” is appropriate for Cardas, or any other “audiophile” wire marketer.

Originally Posted by Pano

I say you are worrying about things you should not worry about. That's a large part of this hobby, worrying. If it makes you feel better, get the most expensive binding posts you can afford. There are many audio companies that will be glad to take your money.

Audio-nervosa fuels the industry.

I often wonder if people who obsess about non-issues such as binding posts ever actually enjoy music. (Perhaps if they used proper Speakons, they'd have more time to actually listen to music.)

Originally Posted by wushuliu

*** I wasn't aware of the barrage of DBT testing done on the audibility of binding posts, or on any individual components including caps and cables, etc. I love how people are always going on and on like there's this indisputable body of evidence to back up their claims. But there isn't. There's no there there.

Actually, there has. An intelligent person can reasonably make such inferences from the existing body of DBT’s. For example, take the infamous Nousaine/Maki/Zipser test, in which the late Miami audio dealer Steve Zipser was unable to hear any difference, in his own reference system with his own musical selections he claimed were revealing, between a pair of then-flagship Pass Labs monoblocs and an older Yamaha integrated amp, with the volume control of the Yammy used to level match the two. Among the differences in the two amps were the binding posts. Yet, again, no differences were detected when the dealer didn’t know whether he was listening to his ugly space-heaters or the humble midfi integrated.

Fact of the matter is, every DBT between amplifiers has also been a DBT of each amp's binding posts.

[SY]

Originally Posted by wushuliu

Please define 'scientifically important'. I wasn't aware of the barrage of DBT testing done on the audibility of binding posts...

There isn't, because there's zero plausibility to the stories and story-tellers don't like to run experiments which could contradict their stories. So... it's reasonable to go with the same electronic principles that allow us to drop spacecraft on Neptune, image tumors in bodies, and measure the diameters of atoms.

[Bare]

Clearly things Must be slow at Audio Asylum, as attitudes if not the actual inmates, have seemingly migrated over 'here'.

[bear]

Originally Posted by Pallas

Isn't "designed" a bit of a strong word to use there?


That hinges entirely on one’s definition of the word “reputable.”

Given the nonsense they spew in their propaganda, it is hard to see how the word “reputable” is appropriate for Cardas, or any other “audiophile” wire marketer.

They have products. Things like binding posts are hardware. Simple not complicated. They have been making stuff for decades now. If they were not reputable, they'd be long gone, like so many others. That's my take. Ignore the marketeering hype. They make *copper* binding posts.

Actually, there has. An intelligent person can reasonably make such inferences from the existing body of DBT’s. For example, take the infamous Nousaine/Maki/Zipser test, in which the late Miami audio dealer Steve Zipser was unable to hear any difference, in his own reference system with his own musical selections he claimed were revealing, between a pair of then-flagship Pass Labs monoblocs and an older Yamaha integrated amp, with the volume control of the Yammy used to level match the two. Among the differences in the two amps were the binding posts. Yet, again, no differences were detected when the dealer didn’t know whether he was listening to his ugly space-heaters or the humble midfi integrated.

Fact of the matter is, every DBT between amplifiers has also been a DBT of each amp's binding posts.

There are two people in that statement that I know something about. Steve Zipser was from NYC. I knew him from before he was known by anyone. What he heard or did not hear is pretty much irrelevant, then as now. As far as one of the other two mentioned, one I don't know at all, the other I would not consider to be authoritative on any subject, although he has hyped his point of view ad nauseum for decades. Having received one of his ABX test CDs I can say for certainty that the source material used was well selected to make 100% certain that nobody on any system could possibly hear any differences. My opinion, of course.

Whatever that infamous "test" was, it is meaningless and irrelevant except to the extent that it illustrates the size of egos in the audio world. In my opinion, of course.

And yes, every audio DBT is very likely both of a highly flawed methodology as well as a test of all sorts of uncontrolled variables, including binding posts. Which means mostly that so-called DBTs are only valid for the test and test conditions during the test. Generalizing beyond that is stepping into quicksand and sliding the slippery slope. In my opinion, of course.

My opinion is of course quite irrelevant and meaningless as well.

[tvrgeek]

Originally Posted by tinitus

I just squeeze the crimp terminals, and solder ...that's the proper way ... and preferably use tinned copper whereever it's possible

Splitting hairs: The very expensive AMP crimpers , the ones that left three little dimples in the crimp, produced a cold weld that was superior to soldering. Unfortunately, these are $800 crimpers for the cheap manual ones; production were pneumatic. They were Mil Spec certified. Of course, Mil Spec is just a spec, not a grantee of good design. Just it was known what it was. I have not seen any of these in about 35 years. So I use my $80 ones and solder. The best way is to use un-insulated lugs so you can heat sink at the wire end and not get wicking that can lead to fatigue cracks. Then a flexible boot or heat shrink. Handy tip if you are building spacecraft.

My old Tanburgs came with internally attached speaker wires. As was mentioned, the best connector is no connector. It can't fail.

[mondogenerator]

Originally Posted by tinitus

I just squeeze the crimp terminals, and solder ...that's the proper way ... and preferably use tinned copper whereever it's possible

Totally 100% agree Also id never buy the silver type (nickel plate?) i used gold plated copper types (or at least coppery types). Cheap. The plate the come with is naff. Theyve lasted 8 odd years of my fiddling without damage. Id use brass but theyre hard to find. Also my mums LS3/5A terminals are fine. Go figure lol. Just strip your wires now and then...

Heck id just use a 16 amp 'choc' block if i had no concern with appearance. Ive got some nice hard plastic 400V types i could use...