fmak said:Does anyone have experience of this pl? Performance? Durability?
Usability?
Never used one personally, but I have a lot of time with a TDS460A. Very similar scope, Very nice. The 340 looks like a stripped down version of the 460. I would not be afraid to buy one, if the price were right.
If you are shopping, I'd urge you to check out the TDS1000, and TDS2000 scopes. These new low end scopes are very nice, and the price is very reasonable. They offer many of the same features as their more expensive "big brothers". They are, however much much smaller, with higher sampling rates and longer record lengths. (100Mhz, blk/wht LDC for $995 last I checked)
Just shopping, or do you have one in mind?
-Dan
Re: Re: TDS340 Scope
If you are shopping, I'd urge you to check out the TDS1000, and TDS2000 scopes. These new low end scopes are very nice, and the price is very reasonable. They offer many of the same features as their more expensive "big brothers". They are, however much much smaller, with higher sampling rates and longer record lengths. (100Mhz, blk/wht LDC for $995 last I checked)
Just shopping, or do you have one in mind?
---------------------------------------------------------------
I am dithering between the TDS340A, the 150MHz HP54602B and a Tek 2456B 400 MHz scope which are being auctioned. I guess it will depend on price. A 400MHz scope would be really nice for digital work but then the TDS340 is more automatic and practical for the bench.
Any advice?
If you are shopping, I'd urge you to check out the TDS1000, and TDS2000 scopes. These new low end scopes are very nice, and the price is very reasonable. They offer many of the same features as their more expensive "big brothers". They are, however much much smaller, with higher sampling rates and longer record lengths. (100Mhz, blk/wht LDC for $995 last I checked)
Just shopping, or do you have one in mind?
---------------------------------------------------------------
I am dithering between the TDS340A, the 150MHz HP54602B and a Tek 2456B 400 MHz scope which are being auctioned. I guess it will depend on price. A 400MHz scope would be really nice for digital work but then the TDS340 is more automatic and practical for the bench.
Any advice?
Re: Re: Re: TDS340 Scope
The TDS1000/2000 series are very comparable to the TDS300,400 series. I've only found a few times I've ever really needed the extra options (debugging logic, for example). If you're buying new, the TDS1000/2000 are the way to go for a home shop or small buisness.
I swear by the tek digitals. I've owned a couple, and have used several others. I've also purchased several for companies that I have worked for. I've settled on a TDS3032B for my own shop. Ultimatley, tax reasons caused me to spend the extra cash. Otherwise I'd still be using a TDS200 series. The TDS3000's have Good speed, plenty fast sampling, and lots of analog bandwidth. More than what I usually use. It also has a built in ethernet... ....very nice for remote monitoring.
The one thing I would suggest it to get a scope with a sample rate close to or better than 10 times the rated bandwidth. It's supposed to keep ailising issues from becoming a problem.
what sort of price ranges are the scopes you're looking at?
-Dan
fmak said:
The TDS1000/2000 series are very comparable to the TDS300,400 series. I've only found a few times I've ever really needed the extra options (debugging logic, for example). If you're buying new, the TDS1000/2000 are the way to go for a home shop or small buisness.
I swear by the tek digitals. I've owned a couple, and have used several others. I've also purchased several for companies that I have worked for. I've settled on a TDS3032B for my own shop. Ultimatley, tax reasons caused me to spend the extra cash. Otherwise I'd still be using a TDS200 series. The TDS3000's have Good speed, plenty fast sampling, and lots of analog bandwidth. More than what I usually use. It also has a built in ethernet... ....very nice for remote monitoring.
The one thing I would suggest it to get a scope with a sample rate close to or better than 10 times the rated bandwidth. It's supposed to keep ailising issues from becoming a problem.
what sort of price ranges are the scopes you're looking at?
-Dan
Re: Re: Re: TDS340 Scope
Hi fmak,
I have used all the scopes mentioned on this thread in the past few years. I own a TDS360 and have use the newer TDS1000/2000/3000 scopes at work daily.
First question - do you need digital storage? If so then the otherwise fine Tek2465B (typo above?) will not do, it's analogue only. Four channels can be useful.
I would strongly recommend against the HP54602B. HP say it's a 150MHz b/w scope. However, it uses a technique called repetitive interleaved sampling. Look at the single shot b/w figure - it's a miserable 2MHz. So if the signal you're trying to capture is perfectly regular then this scope will give you a good picture of it. If it's time varying then the scope probably won't be able to capture it. In practice when using this scope the display breaks up into a mess of dots every time you change something. Avoid this and most of HP's other low end scopes. The high end ones are however very good but at a steep price even second hand. However if you are want to spend a lot then Teks high end scopes are equally good or better.
TDS1000 is the modern equivalent of TDS3xx series. It's low cost but reasonably new. The slighly older TDS220/220/224 may be cheaper. TDS2000 adds colour and a few more features. TDS3000 has digital phosphor - makes it look and feel slightly more like an analogue scope.
Go for either of the Teks. Decide if you need storage and then go by price. The TDS340 will fit a lot of your needs - I reach for my TDS360 most of the time at home even though there is a much better scope sitting above it.
Good luck,
James
fmak said:
Hi fmak,
I have used all the scopes mentioned on this thread in the past few years. I own a TDS360 and have use the newer TDS1000/2000/3000 scopes at work daily.
First question - do you need digital storage? If so then the otherwise fine Tek2465B (typo above?) will not do, it's analogue only. Four channels can be useful.
I would strongly recommend against the HP54602B. HP say it's a 150MHz b/w scope. However, it uses a technique called repetitive interleaved sampling. Look at the single shot b/w figure - it's a miserable 2MHz. So if the signal you're trying to capture is perfectly regular then this scope will give you a good picture of it. If it's time varying then the scope probably won't be able to capture it. In practice when using this scope the display breaks up into a mess of dots every time you change something. Avoid this and most of HP's other low end scopes. The high end ones are however very good but at a steep price even second hand. However if you are want to spend a lot then Teks high end scopes are equally good or better.
TDS1000 is the modern equivalent of TDS3xx series. It's low cost but reasonably new. The slighly older TDS220/220/224 may be cheaper. TDS2000 adds colour and a few more features. TDS3000 has digital phosphor - makes it look and feel slightly more like an analogue scope.
Go for either of the Teks. Decide if you need storage and then go by price. The TDS340 will fit a lot of your needs - I reach for my TDS360 most of the time at home even though there is a much better scope sitting above it.
Good luck,
James
Re: Re: Re: Re: TDS340 Scope
Agreed!
One thing that I really like about the TDS200,1000,2000,3000 series are their size. Very short. I have mine sitting on my desk, with my projects right in frot of it. It's so short, that often times I find myself pulling the scope closer to me. I hated using the longer scopes. There was never enough room on the bench. You'd always be trying to push them farther away!
I've only used the HP scopes a few times (low end units) and was never impressed with them. They just didn't "feel" right.
Just wondering what are the TDS300's going for nowadays. Seems to me I saw on on ebay for around $1100.
You guys finding the same thing?
-Dan
nemestra said:
Agreed!
One thing that I really like about the TDS200,1000,2000,3000 series are their size. Very short. I have mine sitting on my desk, with my projects right in frot of it. It's so short, that often times I find myself pulling the scope closer to me. I hated using the longer scopes. There was never enough room on the bench. You'd always be trying to push them farther away!
I've only used the HP scopes a few times (low end units) and was never impressed with them. They just didn't "feel" right.
Just wondering what are the TDS300's going for nowadays. Seems to me I saw on on ebay for around $1100.
You guys finding the same thing?
-Dan
Howdy,
I am your friendly neighborhood Tektronix Sales Engineer. I sell for Tektronix in Long Island, New York. I highly recommend a TDS3000 series scope with the battery option if you can find one on the cheap. I say this because of the ability to float the scope and make measurements without an expensive differential probe. The TDS300 scope was obsoleted about 5 years ago and is just about at the end of it's support life. After it goes out of support life there is no guarranty you will be able to find parts for repairs if it becomes necessary. Don't get me wrong the TDS300 is a fine low cost scope, but if I were spending my hard earned cash I would go for the TDS3000. The TDS200 (just went obsolete but still supported) and it's replacements the TDS1000 and TDS2000 series are great DSO's also but unfortunately they do not have the battery option. Another nice feature of the TDS3000 is DPO (Digital Phospher Technology) which gets you as close to an analog oscilloscope as posible by intensity modulating the Z axis. It also comes in handy when troubleshooting and finding a glitch. Well I could go on and on, but if you have any questions just give me a shout.
I am your friendly neighborhood Tektronix Sales Engineer. I sell for Tektronix in Long Island, New York. I highly recommend a TDS3000 series scope with the battery option if you can find one on the cheap. I say this because of the ability to float the scope and make measurements without an expensive differential probe. The TDS300 scope was obsoleted about 5 years ago and is just about at the end of it's support life. After it goes out of support life there is no guarranty you will be able to find parts for repairs if it becomes necessary. Don't get me wrong the TDS300 is a fine low cost scope, but if I were spending my hard earned cash I would go for the TDS3000. The TDS200 (just went obsolete but still supported) and it's replacements the TDS1000 and TDS2000 series are great DSO's also but unfortunately they do not have the battery option. Another nice feature of the TDS3000 is DPO (Digital Phospher Technology) which gets you as close to an analog oscilloscope as posible by intensity modulating the Z axis. It also comes in handy when troubleshooting and finding a glitch. Well I could go on and on, but if you have any questions just give me a shout.
nemestra,
Excellent advice! There are quite alot of 2465B's out there that can be had for a heartbeat. They can be found inexpensively enough that a second could be purchased for parts if a repair was needed. I have one on my bench and will never part with it (that is even with access to any Tek scope I want). I will take my Tektronix hat off now (I used to sell for HP also) and agree with you that the HP54602B would be a bad choice because it just does not have enough sample rate. If I am not mistaken it is only 20 megasamples so it is really a repetitive scope and not good for one-shot type of measurements that digital troubleshooting may require.
Excellent advice! There are quite alot of 2465B's out there that can be had for a heartbeat. They can be found inexpensively enough that a second could be purchased for parts if a repair was needed. I have one on my bench and will never part with it (that is even with access to any Tek scope I want). I will take my Tektronix hat off now (I used to sell for HP also) and agree with you that the HP54602B would be a bad choice because it just does not have enough sample rate. If I am not mistaken it is only 20 megasamples so it is really a repetitive scope and not good for one-shot type of measurements that digital troubleshooting may require.
The problem with the TDS340 is that it has only 1,000 points of acquisition memory. And that's what determines your sample rate. The 1,000 points are spread across the whole screen. So if you're looking at 1ms onscreen, you're sampling at 1,000 samples per millisecond. Which is 1 megasample per second. Which is WAY lower than the 500 megasamples per second you paid for.
This is a common problem with Digital Scopes. The sample rate is determined by the combination of Timebase and Memory, NOT by the Maximum Sample Rate Spec. This doesn't matter for fast pulse work like digital design. But it can be a killer in audio applications. Sampling too slow means you miss spikes, noise, glitches, and other things that degrade audio quality.
The only way to avoid this trap is to buy a scope with longer memory. Like the TDS3000 the Salesman wanted to sell you. Or another manufacturer's scope with longer memory.
BTW, the Tek DPO scopes have the same problem in spades. Their onscreen memory is limited to 500 points, which is even worse. The signals look pretty - clean and all - but it's the stuff you don't see that kills you.
Cheers, BC
This is a common problem with Digital Scopes. The sample rate is determined by the combination of Timebase and Memory, NOT by the Maximum Sample Rate Spec. This doesn't matter for fast pulse work like digital design. But it can be a killer in audio applications. Sampling too slow means you miss spikes, noise, glitches, and other things that degrade audio quality.
The only way to avoid this trap is to buy a scope with longer memory. Like the TDS3000 the Salesman wanted to sell you. Or another manufacturer's scope with longer memory.
BTW, the Tek DPO scopes have the same problem in spades. Their onscreen memory is limited to 500 points, which is even worse. The signals look pretty - clean and all - but it's the stuff you don't see that kills you.
Cheers, BC
BC,
First point; I couldn't sell him any of the scopes we discussed because they are sold through distribution channels.
Second point; what you have stated is true in general about digital scopes in general but during aquisition whatever is captured is stored in memory and even though only 500 points is displayed on the screen, if the scope had say 10K memory, one could scroll through the whole 15K of memory.
Third point; here is a very short explanation of how DPO works: Suppose we are looking for a transient (glitch or spike). An analog scope is unable to display a transient with sufficient brightness, and is prone to flickering; the (much brighter) main waveform obscures it. Moreover, the analog oscilloscope provides no means of storing and analyzing the waveform. A Digital Phospher Scope (DPO) would be a better choice for transient capture because, firstly, its waveform capture rate is 50 times faster (>100K waveforms/second IIRC) than that of a DSO with comparable performance. This provides advantages when looking for transients. Its acquisition system is active much more of the time, so the DPO has hundreds of times more opportunities to capture glitches and infrequent events. Secondly, the DPO real-time intensity grading exposes the details about the “history” of a signal’s activity as they accumulate. The digital phosphor display makes it easier to understand the characteristics of the transients you’ve captured. It intensifies the areas where the signal trace crosses more frequently, much like an analog oscilloscope. An infrequent transient is dimmer than the main waveform that repeats continuously, yet it’s still very visible and distinguishable. Changes are seen as they occur. If you are interested in DPO beyond my short explanation here is the URL to the DPO white paper pdf file. http://www.tek.com/Measurement/scopes/dpo_hub/55W_14546_0.pdf.
Lastly, thanks for the soapbox but I swore to my wife I would try not to think about work for the next few days and have already broken my promise.
First point; I couldn't sell him any of the scopes we discussed because they are sold through distribution channels.
Second point; what you have stated is true in general about digital scopes in general but during aquisition whatever is captured is stored in memory and even though only 500 points is displayed on the screen, if the scope had say 10K memory, one could scroll through the whole 15K of memory.
Third point; here is a very short explanation of how DPO works: Suppose we are looking for a transient (glitch or spike). An analog scope is unable to display a transient with sufficient brightness, and is prone to flickering; the (much brighter) main waveform obscures it. Moreover, the analog oscilloscope provides no means of storing and analyzing the waveform. A Digital Phospher Scope (DPO) would be a better choice for transient capture because, firstly, its waveform capture rate is 50 times faster (>100K waveforms/second IIRC) than that of a DSO with comparable performance. This provides advantages when looking for transients. Its acquisition system is active much more of the time, so the DPO has hundreds of times more opportunities to capture glitches and infrequent events. Secondly, the DPO real-time intensity grading exposes the details about the “history” of a signal’s activity as they accumulate. The digital phosphor display makes it easier to understand the characteristics of the transients you’ve captured. It intensifies the areas where the signal trace crosses more frequently, much like an analog oscilloscope. An infrequent transient is dimmer than the main waveform that repeats continuously, yet it’s still very visible and distinguishable. Changes are seen as they occur. If you are interested in DPO beyond my short explanation here is the URL to the DPO white paper pdf file. http://www.tek.com/Measurement/scopes/dpo_hub/55W_14546_0.pdf.
Lastly, thanks for the soapbox but I swore to my wife I would try not to think about work for the next few days and have already broken my promise.
kilowattski said:
This is the problem with modern plastic junk test equipment. I own 4 Tek Scopes:
* 213 battery powered scope dmm
* 5440 mainframe with a mess of plug-ins.
* 453
* TDS210 with the FFT/comm module
The first three scopes are made when Tek thought that people who use test equipment aren't idiots and provide extensive schematics and parts lists. My 5540 and all the plug-in manuals is a stack about 4 inches thick. The 453 is about 2 inches thick. All manuals provide extensive fold-out schematics etc.
In contrast the service manual for the TDS-210 (plastic POS) is about 47 pages with about 30 pages of worthless stuff. I can understand that there is a lot of ASIC's, PLA's and proprietary stuff in there, but I know the analog front end and power supply are serviceable. According to the manual, the entire electronics guts are like two parts which are purchased as complete units (if you can).
I'm very confident that my 1970's scopes (453 and 5440) will be alive and kicking when my TDS210 is tossed in the trash because a part is broken on one of the two non-available boards.
The TDS-210 is a great scope (noisy though, don't expect the noise floor that you get even on a cheapie analog scope), but it's days are numbered, I knew it when I bought it, and that plastic feel and lack of support for it re-affirm my belief every time I use it.
BTW I paid $45 for the 453 and it's a much better scope for audio and analog signals than the TDS210 in general. the storage and acquisition capabilities of the 210 make it invaluable for some things but those things don't come along often.
Sheldon
stokessd said:
I have owned a TDS200 series... ...and now own a TDS3000 series. I wouldn't be without my TDS3000. It's helped me solve many problems that I could not have solved with an analog scope. (Of course, I do a lot more than just audio). The 3000 is better than the 200 by a long shot. But for many things the 200 is better than the analog.
The best situation is to own both! Each have their strong points.
Just like meters. Always keep an analog meter next to your digital!
-Dan
Kilowattski,
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were looking for money! I meant selling the scope in the same way that Shatner "sells" Priceline. (Or Martha "sells" dodgy stock?)
I take your point about storing lots of stuff in memory. And you can always scroll through it later. But it will be acquired at the sample rate defined by the number of ONSCREEN points. So long memory offscreen doesn't help with that problem. At a 100 us/sec timebase, which is 1msec onscreen, a 1K memory scope will sample at just 1 megasample per sec. Which is pretty slow.
Finally, DPO is a neat feature. But it limits onscreen memory to just 500 points. Which, in the example above, limits the sample rate to 500 kilosamples per second. Which, for a measurement tool, is really slow.
Tell Missus K she can take the soapbox away from both of us now!
Cheers, BC
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were looking for money! I meant selling the scope in the same way that Shatner "sells" Priceline. (Or Martha "sells" dodgy stock?)
I take your point about storing lots of stuff in memory. And you can always scroll through it later. But it will be acquired at the sample rate defined by the number of ONSCREEN points. So long memory offscreen doesn't help with that problem. At a 100 us/sec timebase, which is 1msec onscreen, a 1K memory scope will sample at just 1 megasample per sec. Which is pretty slow.
Finally, DPO is a neat feature. But it limits onscreen memory to just 500 points. Which, in the example above, limits the sample rate to 500 kilosamples per second. Which, for a measurement tool, is really slow.
Tell Missus K she can take the soapbox away from both of us now!
Cheers, BC
Blown screen on a TDS210...help!
Hi Kilowattski and others,
My TDS210 is only 4 years old and the screen has broken down. The center of the screen is now yellowish and nothing is visible on it. The edges show text very faintly.
I was told it will cost US$450/- to fix it. At that price I think it is not worth it at all and also something that I cannot do. Is it possible to get a screen from a junked TDS210 ? WHere do I look for it.
I'll try to attach a picture.
I's a pity as I hardly got to use it.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Ashok.
Hi Kilowattski and others,
My TDS210 is only 4 years old and the screen has broken down. The center of the screen is now yellowish and nothing is visible on it. The edges show text very faintly.
I was told it will cost US$450/- to fix it. At that price I think it is not worth it at all and also something that I cannot do. Is it possible to get a screen from a junked TDS210 ? WHere do I look for it.
I'll try to attach a picture.
I's a pity as I hardly got to use it.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Ashok.
Attachments
We use the Tek 2014 scopes here at work as the general workhorses and they are superb for everyday use. Small light and easy to drive. (And even the price in the UK was alright).
At home I've use a couple of the old HP 174X series. The one with the meter on top of it, and the storage version. Wonderfully built. Pity HP don't build like that any more.
I would like a 2014 for myself at home though, but I can't justify the price when I've got one on my lab bench at work to use.
At home I've use a couple of the old HP 174X series. The one with the meter on top of it, and the storage version. Wonderfully built. Pity HP don't build like that any more.
I would like a 2014 for myself at home though, but I can't justify the price when I've got one on my lab bench at work to use.
Ashok,
There's one on USA eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3805775872&category=4677
4 Days left, will ship to Asia...
Starting bid $25
There's one on USA eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3805775872&category=4677
4 Days left, will ship to Asia...
Starting bid $25
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