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Old 6th January 2013, 12:10 PM   #101
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It is also a challenge to make something inexpensive that works pretty well. Go for it, everyone! I once designed a power amplifier for the NAB that cost $1 for the active parts. You can do it too!
 
Old 6th January 2013, 12:19 PM   #102
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It's only a challenge if you make a few of them.
We diy-ers pay $ 2 for an opamp that OEMs get for $ 0.05 - if you buy 100k.
We pay $ 100 for a good speaker driver; if you go to China for 10,000 pieces you can get them for $ 6.00 each.

So, high-end is partly so expensive because the series are so small. Then again, if they would be build by the 1000's for 1/10 the price they would no longer be considered high-end, no matter what the performance is.

Welcome to the real world

jan
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Old 6th January 2013, 12:20 PM   #103
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Jack Bybee does NOT make a living from his parts. I just spoke to him last night about purchase of one of his more expensive components, $2100, I am pretty sure. He can't afford to GIVE me a set of these, they cost too much in time and money.
Another engineer who works with both Jack Bybee and me on various projects is now lusting after a pair of Blowtorch boards, and we talked last night, as well. I don't want to build them, he is willing to build them, but I would still have to supervise him as to the construction at each stage. For example, I spent $100 in tech labor, last week, just to make a resistor matrix for this engineer to follow. My supervising labor came for free. That is just a bare beginning. For now I have to personally select and match the active parts so that the distortion will be low enough not to be embarrassing, since it runs open loop.
Check out an Aston Martin sometime. Do they give the reject parts to an employee to throw together, cheap? Same thing.
 
Old 6th January 2013, 12:24 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl View Post
Jan Didden, you have gotten my input wrong. Please listen up.

I do NOT have to know WHICH SOURCE I am listening to, in advance. ONLY, that when I listen, I know that one is X and the other is Y. Arbitrary assignments to two different sound sources. Then I can tell you which sounds best: X or Y
Please, do not continue to compromise me with your version of how you think I listen.
Noted. Although, if I would be so inclined I could probably find several versions of that statement on this forum. What you propose here is a single-blind test and knowing your aversion to anything that relies on listening only, I doubt that you ever have done it.
So for the time being this then remains a personal anecdote, sorry.


jan
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Old 6th January 2013, 12:24 PM   #105
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Jan, you exaggerate, once again. Only junk goes for $.05. Good enough for you, perhaps.
Ask Scott Wurcer about this. IF he will sell you an AD797 for even $0.10 (double your price) in quantities of 100,000, I am interested.
 
Old 6th January 2013, 12:26 PM   #106
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My way is listening only. Think about it. It is just a variation in blind testing that WORKS!
 
Old 6th January 2013, 01:03 PM   #107
Art M is offline Art M  United States
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I am so grateful that my Daddy taught me the Basics: " Don't comment on how much a Woman spends on her fashion accessories". One thing is for sure, I don't decide what looks good.
 
Old 6th January 2013, 01:05 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jan.didden View Post
What you propose here is a single-blind test...
It doesn't have to be. The issues are that one preference trial is completely insignificant (coin flip) and John won't actually back up his claims by doing a well-constructed multiple trial test in his suggested format.

There you have the fashion audio industry in a nutshell. Like you said, anecdote, like my continuing hot trysts with Scarlett Johanssen.
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Old 6th January 2013, 01:08 PM   #109
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Default Male Jewellery and the question of value...

Another enduring perspective on audio system component pricing may be found in a comparison with the costs of jewellery materials versus finished products. Why is it that for more or less identical items, the retail price can range through a factor of 5 or more?

Precious metals such as Gold, Silver and even Platinum all find their way into audio products. Over time status and wealth have been gauged by metrics as diverse as; quantities of proudly unused bronze axe heads through the glittering sarcophagus of Tutankhamen, the illuminated icons of the church, the crowns and regalia of monarchy to the modern day metals market. Albeit for very different reasons it seems that in one way or another, everyone always knew that shiny is good and lustrous even better.

In their various formats and guises are some products from the audio industry simply not meeting this kind of age old need? If so, for that particular purchasing population what relevance does retail price have and what does this mean for the rest of us?
 
Old 6th January 2013, 01:10 PM   #110
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@ CopperTop:

Granted...in part.

Are we here talking of the 'designer handbag' equivalent in audio or we talking Chinese mass produced consumer products?

How about home produced equipment and the costs involved? Such as simple distribution costs, warranty insurance, wholesale and retail profits, employee wages and benefits, rent, insurances, cost of making statutory returns, amortisation of equipment, Tax, et al. along with the other costs I mentioned in my previous post? The fact that - at bulk quantities pricing, components cost little is only an nth of properly quantified production costs.

My view is that this whole arguement is sterile. It cannot get anywhere because the comparisons being made are between turnips and apples! The simple fact is that people have the right to choose; some choices are more expensive than others; that will never change.
 

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