Roederstein 'BAKELITE' series EK capacitors - "Living Legend" OR "Looney Legacy" ...? - Page 2 - diyAudio
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Old 18th December 2012, 05:13 PM   #11
Elvee is offline Elvee  Belgium
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I have found one more example: a 1000µ/16V (used)
Its esr @1KHz is 61mΩ

For comparison purposes, a modern 1000µ has 83mΩ, yet it unused and 25V.

Also included is a Siemens 1000µ/16V dated 03/74: 58mΩ. Yet it is an axial type and is thus disadvantaged (and probably older than the EK too).

So, this confirms EK caps are excellent, but Siemens are still superior
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Old 18th December 2012, 05:41 PM   #12
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Hi Elvee

Top work dude !

You seem to know a thing or two about all this.
Why is the axial capacitor 'disadvantaged' ?

Cheers.

Si.
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Old 18th December 2012, 06:01 PM   #13
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Mmm, these ROE caps may measure excellent but exactly this type was the reason I started recapping long ago. I experienced many faulty ones.
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Old 18th December 2012, 06:19 PM   #14
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Default bad electrolytic caps

these capacitors were heavily used not only in TV set's, but also in high-end audio gear by Revox, Bang & Olufsen and others.
In my experience, these capacitors are the first things to replace when the equipment comes in for service.
The top surface of many is cracked and they are dried out.
Maybe these capacitors where O.K. when new, but after a couple of decades, in my view they are no good anymore.
Most Japanese elco's, and Philips elco's of the same age are still O.K.
The dull red ROE elco's are really bad components and need to be replaced!
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Old 19th December 2012, 08:41 AM   #15
Elvee is offline Elvee  Belgium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jean-paul View Post
Mmm, these ROE caps may measure excellent but exactly this type was the reason I started recapping long ago. I experienced many faulty ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 968driver View Post
these capacitors were heavily used not only in TV set's, but also in high-end audio gear by Revox, Bang & Olufsen and others.
In my experience, these capacitors are the first things to replace when the equipment comes in for service.
The top surface of many is cracked and they are dried out.
Maybe these capacitors where O.K. when new, but after a couple of decades, in my view they are no good anymore.
Most Japanese elco's, and Philips elco's of the same age are still O.K.
The dull red ROE elco's are really bad components and need to be replaced!
Quite astonishing how user's experiences can differ.

For my part, compared to other contemporary types, I have seen very few faulty ones. As I mentioned earlier, I found some had cracked or even exploded, but it was caused by application of reverse bias.
Usually, ordinary Al caps tolerate a small percentage of reverse bias voltage during part of a cycle, but the EK do not tolerate well that kind of treatment, probably because of their hermetic construction.

There may be other factors: since they were low esr, some designers could have mistakenly thought that they were suitable for operation at high current, high temperature and high frequency. In fact, they must be 85° or perhaps 70° parts.

The equipment where I saw them were mainly professional, not consumer, conservatively designed and they weren't subjected to simultaneous stresses.

Under the same conditions, the Philips ones were awful (the ones with light blue sleeve): they simply dried up, without stress, and they even degraded under shelf storage conditions.
I cannot comment about "Japanese elco's", that is too broad.

Quote:
Why is the axial capacitor 'disadvantaged' ?
Because the cathode connection has to be made through a thin aluminium strip welded to the bottom of the case, having a length ~150% of the cap's body.
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File Type: jpg CapConst.jpg (80.9 KB, 301 views)
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Old 19th December 2012, 09:08 AM   #16
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The blue BC Components versions are good. Series 037 and 038.
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Old 19th December 2012, 01:11 PM   #17
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Hi Elvee

You're not related to Albert Einstein by any chance ?

N I C E diagram of the axial !

EXACTLY !...
...Pro-applications.
I'm sure they were used by all sorts of designers, for all sorts of purposes...
...my interest in them is mainly from a 'sonic' point of view...
...in apps. such as microphones & low-level preamps.

No over-current, no reverse-voltage, & no large amount of heat.
Obviously in a switch-mode PSU say, there are better-contenders.

They do appear to be favoured for 'sonics' ( at least in their day )...
...question is...
...do they live up to modern equivallents ?

I have some to test here...
...but it will be a while before I am able to do so.

Cheers

Si.

Elvee...
...Know anything about the bi-polar ones ?
Obviously WAY less uF/size...
...I keep meaning to look into this...
...But non-polar, I believe, are supposed to be way-lower noise...
...thing is, I've never known WHY ?
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Old 19th December 2012, 04:16 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Space Egg Corp View Post
I'm sure they were used by all sorts of designers, for all sorts of purposes...
...my interest in them is mainly from a 'sonic' point of view...
...in apps. such as microphones & low-level preamps.

No over-current, no reverse-voltage, & no large amount of heat.
Obviously in a switch-mode PSU say, there are better-contenders.

They do appear to be favoured for 'sonics' ( at least in their day )...
...question is...
...do they live up to modern equivallents ?
Yes, definitely


Quote:
Elvee...
...Know anything about the bi-polar ones ?
Obviously WAY less uF/size...
...I keep meaning to look into this...
...But non-polar, I believe, are supposed to be way-lower noise...
...thing is, I've never known WHY ?
I have never seen bipolars in this series (which doesn't mean they don't exist).

I have never heard about bi-polars having a lower noise (same remark). Ordinary, good quality caps already have a rather low noise: it is caused by the reforming of the oxide layer, and very small once the equipment has been up and running for some time. And obviously, it is heavily low pass filtered thanks to the capacitance.
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Old 19th December 2012, 09:37 PM   #19
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Thanks ALBERT !

It might...
...in fact...IS...
...a slightly different series to the EK ones in the red/brown Bakelite.

I have seen 10uF bi-polars...
...about the same size, as a 'regular' say, 220uF Roe-cap.

The ones I've seen are in the ORANGE Bakelite casing...
...but I've no idea of the series #.

There were some interesting pics in the thread you pointed to Elvee...
...some of those were in the Orange Bakelite casing...
...no one said what the pre-amp ( or whatever it was ) was in the text though...

Was it a Naim Audio...something ?

Cheers.

Si.
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Old 20th December 2012, 07:35 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Space Egg Corp View Post
I have seen 10uF bi-polars...
...about the same size, as a 'regular' say, 220uF Roe-cap.
Good to know

Quote:
The ones I've seen are in the ORANGE Bakelite casing...
...but I've no idea of the series #.
Yeah, to complicate matters further, I have also seen Siemens in a dull brick case, and also some in stone-grey color case, I don't remember if they were Sie or ROE
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