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Old 7th November 2003, 02:45 AM   #11
sully is offline sully  United States
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Default Re: Sorry to be off topic

Quote:
Originally posted by Da5id4Vz
But Sully, that looks like your experimenting with a superconducting subwoofer voice coil.
We find that a 30 kiloamp burn in during cryogenic treatment helps..and, as a side benefit, everybody's arthritis goes away for a week.

On the down side, all the computer monitors change color, so we have to switch to plasma's.

Would you believe the physicist guys look for 1 microvolt signals in that mess of 535 mcm cables while they're pushing tens of kiloamps?? We have to use really tightly twisted pairs; shields at 5 to 7 tesla are rather useless, and reduction of pickup loops is critical.

Cheers, John
 
Old 7th November 2003, 03:57 AM   #12
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Must mess up compases, wristwatches and ATM cards too.
 
Old 7th November 2003, 08:46 AM   #13
DrG is offline DrG  South Africa
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Quote:
Again, I'm talking about a scientifically controlled environment, NOT you personally switching cables. The human mind is a very powerful generator of illusions...
The man speaks truth. Do a proper blind test and find out, mrfeedback. Do it enough times and I guarantee you'll be right 50% of the time, in line with statistical probability.

This is not to say no differences ever exist in any cable in any application. Only there are no measurable or audible differences for PC's running 50-60Hz and a couple of amps. This is not a K4 supercon application like my MRI scanners use: niobium-titanium alloy coil using copper (yes, copper) as an insulator at 4K...
Quote:
Must mess up compases, wristwatches and ATM cards too.
MR scanner will do that for you too...
 
Old 7th November 2003, 09:42 AM   #14
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I dun think there will be a difference...unless your line has got some funky stuff that can be removed by screened cables or something...
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Old 7th November 2003, 10:30 AM   #15
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Default I believe not to believe in any fixed belief system.

Quote:
Originally posted by mrfeedback
My extension power cords most certainly affect sonics of whatever is plugged in to the end socket, and in all cases improve the sonics markedly.
CDP, radio cassette, guitar amp, PA system, $40,000 replay system, recording system etc, etc.

Eric.
mrfeedback has a system of fixed beliefs about power cables though...

But... I dont mind.
 
Old 7th November 2003, 11:07 AM   #16
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Unhappy I should know better ....

This is yet another one of those threads where the opposing camps will never see eye-2-eye.

As Steve suggests ever so subtly ..... if you use item 'x' and you hear a difference/improvement, then it is real (for you).

There is no point in the sceptics among us saying, "no, you are not hearing this", because this is simply not true, the person in question hears what they hear, we must just learn to accept this.

However, given there are a large number of DIYer's out there without the finances for multi-thousand$ systems, I think there is some obligation to guide members asking questions toward those areas where maximal benefit for $-invested might be found.

So ..... to the question ...... can a PC significantly affect sound?

1. Let's assume what reaches your house is perfect sine-wave, in phase power (highly unlikely actually, but then).

2. Let's forget we are going to rectify this to DC.

3. From your meter box you have maybe 15-20 meters of standard house-hold electrical cable. This has all the faults "claimed" in standard power cords. I expect the vast majority have little knowledge of what is actually in their ceilings.

4. On the end of this 10+m "low audio quality" cable we are going to place 1-2m of either standard power cord, or 0.5-1.0m of "audiophile power cable".

Hmmmmm .....

All logic would suggest that any real difference here is extraordinarily small.

For those who hear this difference "clearly" and are pleased with their expenditure, good for you!

For the average DIYer out there, trying to find the best sound from their limited budget, I would strongly suggest that your hard earn't money might be better spent on other parts of your system.

Regards

Mark
 
Old 7th November 2003, 11:13 AM   #17
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yeah...not to mention the many hundreds maybe kilo meters of wire to your substation and then to ur home...do those have to be upgraded to audiophile quality power cables??
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Old 7th November 2003, 11:19 AM   #18
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Quote:
Kids in the back seat cause accidents...Accidents in the back seat cause kids...
As opposed to the "chicken and egg" question, here I believe the later comes first

mark
 
Old 7th November 2003, 11:36 AM   #19
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Talking Subjective world!

I fully agree with Mefinnins opening statement: if you can "hear" it (that is, if your brain is convinced that a difference exists) then it DOES sound differently, albeit in a subjective way.

I won't try to change anybody's beliefs as long as anybody won't try to change mine or think that I have lousy hearing because I don't PERCEIVE the same things they do.

The crux of the point here is PERCEPTION: given a phenomenon that logically, practically and scientifically cannot be substantiated (I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, mind you), some of us elect to "trust" our brains, whilst others don't.

When I first started to experiment with cables, I DID PERCEIVE DIFFERENCES. Oddly enough, it was always the expensive, good-looking stuff that "sounded" better. The industrial-grade 3 x 6mm^2 (3 wires each 6 square mm section) cable didn't seem to sound as good as some exotic, hi-tech looking cable. Yet, from a scientific theory standpoint the two should have been pretty much equivalent.
However, when I tried to tell which one was which having somebody else switching the cables unbeknown to me, the differences disappeared or, even worse, seemed to be randomly distributed.

In the end, it boils down to how and how much we're willing to pay for satisfying our brain, the real MASTER of the world (everything we know about what surrounds us is mediated by him): some of us might spend $5 for a joint, some others might spend $500 for a power cable.
 
Old 7th November 2003, 11:38 AM   #20
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Default Re: Can a power cord affect sound quality??

Konnichiwa,

Quote:
Originally posted by sully
I (feebly) attempted to re-direct the thread several times into a discussion of can a pc affect sound..
The simple and authorative answer is: "Absolutely".

I would go further by saying that unless the system is of insufficient sonic transparency the PC MUST make a difference as long as the system uses multiple seperate pieces of equipment, conventionally AC mainspowered (correctly implementd switched mode supplies CAN minimise the issues) and designed to conform with modern electrical safety standards and lacking transformer coupled Inputs/Outputs with the option to insulate the input ground from the piece of equipments chassi ground.

There are many ways in which such sensitivity to Power Cables can be minimised and I would also argue that if the equipment was truely competently designed Power Cables SHOULD not make any difference, but to achieve this approaches are required that are not common outside serious wideband measurement and similar gear and which are sadly rarely to never found in audio gear.

Sayonara
 

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