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Old 13th October 2012, 07:06 PM   #11
frugal-phile(tm)
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Speaker, amp, and the cable connecting them are a system. One cannot be considered without the other.

The cable can make a difference, but what difference is system dependent.

There is certainly a lot of snake oil in cables. But that doesn't mean that cable is not important. There are also a lot of amplifier/speaker combos that do not have the DDR to be able to reveal the subtle differences. And at least as many listeners who have not had the intense critical listening training to pick out this information (the established time period for any endeavor is 10,000 hours).

So in the end you have to listen in your system and spend your money on those things that make a difference to you.

Chris & i have both worked hifi retail, and since getting out have done a lot of experimenting with speaker cables.

We are both frugal-philes (tm), and after much experimenting, with our typical speakers (small SE or PP tube amps & FR speakers) we have ended up using single strands of cryo-treated solid core cat 5, with permantly attached O'Netics groundside electron pools.

Cat 5 is quality copper wire and cheap because we get to ride on the backs of the billions of miles made for the computer industry. May not be an absolute best, but certainly wins any bang for the buck (for our systems)

dave
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Old 13th October 2012, 07:41 PM   #12
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copper is wonderful stuff. It conducts electricity very well.
The only substance better is Silver.
Aluminum is a better conductor per unit mass (and per unit cost).
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Old 13th October 2012, 07:53 PM   #13
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10
with permantly attached O'Netics groundside electron pools.
No need to say any more. You clearly have a very advanced system which uses technology unknown to human science. With such a system it is not surprising that speaker cables make a big difference.
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Old 13th October 2012, 08:18 PM   #14
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You come listen to it, then you can judge.

When the system is strained, with no pools, you can hear it strained. With the pools these rough edges dissapear or are made less annoying.

dave
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Old 13th October 2012, 11:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
We are both frugal-philes (tm), and after much experimenting, with our typical speakers (small SE or PP tube amps & FR speakers) we have ended up using single strands of cryo-treated solid core cat 5, with permantly attached O'Netics groundside electron pools.
Cat 5 is quality copper wire and cheap because we get to ride on the backs of the billions of miles made for the computer industry. May not be an absolute best, but certainly wins any bang for the buck (for our systems)

dave
The cat 5 cable the ATT telephone guy gave me to rewire my house was about 30 gauge. I would think a single pair of this would cause damping factor problems on the bass. However, considering the picture of Planet 10's speaker which had about a dozen 4"x10" horns (estimate) maybe he listens to recorder (flute) ensembles exclusively where there isn't any bass. Or Japanese No music of flutes and bells or similar source material.
I paid zero for the SO4 cable I fished out of the trash. It is no longer suitable for 460 VAC motor service having been run over by a forklift. However, a shortened piece is fine for 56 VAC service into a 300W 8 ohm speaker.
As far as the training of my ear, after 10 years of private lessons and public school rehearsal, I made Tex Mus Ed Assn 1968 All State Band on bassoon. I tune the Steinway piano, myself, using the Hammond as reference. And the salesmen at Circuit City and Best Buy haven't been able to sell me anything, since the equipment they sell is such ****, the music they play is ****, and the audition room such a disaster (CC 5 sides, BB no sides at all). Home Entertainment in Houston, TX in 1976, gave the last equipment demonstration that impressed me. The speaker demonstration of the SP2/CS600s that Far Out Music (Clark Cty, IN) gave had all of 2 solo piano notes on the CD, in a tin roofed room, but was good enough to get me out to listen to a used set of SP2-XT speakers on a CS800s with my own CD in a trailer in rural KY. Its Much better in my parallelapiped living/dining room.
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Last edited by indianajo; 13th October 2012 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 13th October 2012, 11:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indianajo View Post
The cat 5 cable the ATT telephone guy gave me to rewire my house was about 30 gauge. I would think a single pair of this would cause damping factor problems on the bass. However, considering the picture of Planet 10's speaker which had about a dozen 4"x10" horns (estimate) maybe he listens to recorder (flute) ensembles exclusively where there isn't any bass.
Cat 5 is typically 24 g. With the amps & speakers i run it has little effect on damping factor. Further a high damping factor usually results in leaner bass.

4x10" horns? I know not what you speak of. My speakers typically have 1 3-5" driver. Some of them produce quite extrodinary bass. And there are a number of helper woofers and sub woofers that can be deployed when necessary.

dave
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Old 13th October 2012, 11:29 PM   #17
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my parallelapiped living/dining room.
Ie rectangular

dave
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Old 14th October 2012, 08:59 AM   #18
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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Aluminum is a better conductor per unit mass (and per unit cost).
those facts will never convince me to dump my copper cables and change over to aluminium cables in any part of my house.

I did use aluminium with VERY thin insulation for the high current cable in my last two racing cars. But that is not about audio quality.
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Old 14th October 2012, 07:49 PM   #19
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I did use aluminium with VERY thin insulation for the high current cable in my last two racing cars. But that is not about audio quality.
So they didn't sound good as speaker cables?
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Old 14th October 2012, 10:33 PM   #20
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IACS is the abbreviation for International Annealed Copper Standard and the number preceding "IACS" is the percentage of conductivity a material has relative to copper, which is considered to be 100% conductive. This does not, of course, mean that copper has no resistance, but rather that it is the standard by which other materials are compared. The higher the % IACS, the more conductive the material is. This standard is based on an annealed copper wire having a density of 8.89 g/cm3, 1 meter long, weighing 1 gram, with a resistance of 0.15328 ohms. This standard is assigned the value 100 at 20C (68F). Here are some examples of conductivity values for a few common materials. Material ICAS % Conductivity Silver 105% Copper 100% Gold 70% Aluminum 61% Brass 28% Zinc 27% Nickel 22% Iron 17% Tin 15% Phosphor Bronze 15% Lead 7% Nickel Aluminum Bronze 7% Steel 3 to 15%
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