You say you aren't making claims.
Now that is funny
Oh I see, you want to control the internet and everyone on it that doesn't see things the way you do.
I'll let you play, while I listen to some nice tunes
See these...
"This is all subjective fantasy and opinions are like a holes...
Interconnects and speaker cables are inaudible unless your lengths are extreme, or your electronics are crap. If you think otherwise you need to prove it with some blind testing"
"I suggest you cant hear the difference between any properly engineered cables (which cost as little as $1 a foot) unless your electronics are crap"
These are claims made by you, the fact that you are unaware you are making claims yourself is a big worry.
Oops! here you are making claims about others "its the out of control BS and everyones opinion that is taken for fact that I would like to rein in."
You are just a control freak, and It's you that is full of ****.
"This is all subjective fantasy and opinions are like a holes...
Interconnects and speaker cables are inaudible unless your lengths are extreme, or your electronics are crap. If you think otherwise you need to prove it with some blind testing"
"I suggest you cant hear the difference between any properly engineered cables (which cost as little as $1 a foot) unless your electronics are crap"
These are claims made by you, the fact that you are unaware you are making claims yourself is a big worry.
Oops! here you are making claims about others "its the out of control BS and everyones opinion that is taken for fact that I would like to rein in."
You are just a control freak, and It's you that is full of ****.
That I will categorically state is wishful thinking. HDMI transmits digital data. It gets there or it doesn't. The picture will NOT be more vivid or sharp or any other adjective you choose. The audio will NOT be different. You may 'feel' better knowing the $18 cable works as well as the $400 one and perceive it to be better but unless you can prove it with double blind testing, it's in your head. My cables came from Monoprice and were about $4. Will that make it even better than the $18 cable? Of course not.
G²
And that, is your opinion, and if the $4 ones work for you... then that's great!
Monster cables are crap, as far as price v performance goes.
I don't buy expensive cables as It's not hard to make good performing ones yourself.
Edit: I'm currently investigating on how to remove my account here, while there are lots of great people, and many with open minds, there are also some very narrow minded individuals here that jump up and down if someones experience is different to theirs. Or if their experience doesn't fit neatly in their tight little box of possibilities. These types tend to think science has reached a pinnacle, funny enough, this kind of thinking has been around for over a hundred years.
I'm preferring forums where folk can share their experiences freely, without the nutters jumping up and down.
Monster cables are crap, as far as price v performance goes.
I don't buy expensive cables as It's not hard to make good performing ones yourself.
Edit: I'm currently investigating on how to remove my account here, while there are lots of great people, and many with open minds, there are also some very narrow minded individuals here that jump up and down if someones experience is different to theirs. Or if their experience doesn't fit neatly in their tight little box of possibilities. These types tend to think science has reached a pinnacle, funny enough, this kind of thinking has been around for over a hundred years.
I'm preferring forums where folk can share their experiences freely, without the nutters jumping up and down.
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Can we get back to the question?
Which interconnects, source to pre-amp, or pre-amp to amplifier, or amplifier to speaker should be short to improve overall performance?
Why would longer cables in any of these connections interfere with performance?
Can we do anything to alleviate that performance degradation due to longer cables?
Which interconnects, source to pre-amp, or pre-amp to amplifier, or amplifier to speaker should be short to improve overall performance?
Why would longer cables in any of these connections interfere with performance?
Can we do anything to alleviate that performance degradation due to longer cables?
To fix performance degradation of long cables:
Well of course, band systems use twisted pair on the mixer feeds to the power amp, and modern power amps have a differential op amp input on the 3 pin input connector to null out the hum. Some bands use DI units or transformers for the audio feeds. My dynakit ST120 and Peavey CS800s sound the same @ 1W with the mixer 6' from the amp, whether I use 3 pin cable on the CS800s or 2 pin RCA connector cable on either. But the ST120 with its single input transistor would be severely disadvantaged by a long cable run from the mixer. Hum would occur.
For the speaker wire:
L. W. Erath put a negative feedback pickup in the speaker that fed back to the amplifier input . These were Jones plugs installed on my ST70 by Home Entertainment service dept. back in 1974, when I bought the LWE III speakers. The main benefit to me was it made the $179 ea speakers with 10" woofers have decent bass. Much better than all those AR bookshelf speakers at the same price point. The saleman said LWE had put a mirror tape on the back of the speaker cone and some kind of light emitter and sensor. That didn't do anything for the treble of course. My dad threw these speakers away when I was in the Army.
Putting the treble in the feedback loop would involve some sort of microphone, and a delay due to the characteristics of air, which is somewhat stupid and makes treble negative feedback impossible in my opinion.
Oh, I never bought any Monster Cable, but that in the store was nice and thick and multistranded. Price was an inhibitor, when I found 4SO10 in the dumpster. As long ago as 1970 it was discussed in Stereo Review, Audio, etc, damping factor could be degraded with too much resistance in the speaker cable. I test damping factor with a bass drum hit like that on ZZ Top Afterburner, Woke up with Wood track. However the top octave piano gargle sound I hear with zip cord is more probably intermodulation distortion between two high frequencies. An amp builder on here postulated a 17 khz vs 19 khz intermodulation test, which is not a quoted amp spec by anybody, but possibly would describe what I hear. However, my Army damaged ears roll of at 14.5 khz. BTW, I can't tell the difference between the cables with the unmodified ST70 (but recapped & re-output tubed) tube amp, which has quoted 1% harmonic distortion and sounds worse than either transistor amp I own.
As far as double blind tests, I live alone and can't even get any of my warm bodied friends to come and and listen to my stupid sound system. They really don't care how good or bad it sounds. Isn't the internet fun.
Well of course, band systems use twisted pair on the mixer feeds to the power amp, and modern power amps have a differential op amp input on the 3 pin input connector to null out the hum. Some bands use DI units or transformers for the audio feeds. My dynakit ST120 and Peavey CS800s sound the same @ 1W with the mixer 6' from the amp, whether I use 3 pin cable on the CS800s or 2 pin RCA connector cable on either. But the ST120 with its single input transistor would be severely disadvantaged by a long cable run from the mixer. Hum would occur.
For the speaker wire:
L. W. Erath put a negative feedback pickup in the speaker that fed back to the amplifier input . These were Jones plugs installed on my ST70 by Home Entertainment service dept. back in 1974, when I bought the LWE III speakers. The main benefit to me was it made the $179 ea speakers with 10" woofers have decent bass. Much better than all those AR bookshelf speakers at the same price point. The saleman said LWE had put a mirror tape on the back of the speaker cone and some kind of light emitter and sensor. That didn't do anything for the treble of course. My dad threw these speakers away when I was in the Army.
Putting the treble in the feedback loop would involve some sort of microphone, and a delay due to the characteristics of air, which is somewhat stupid and makes treble negative feedback impossible in my opinion.
Oh, I never bought any Monster Cable, but that in the store was nice and thick and multistranded. Price was an inhibitor, when I found 4SO10 in the dumpster. As long ago as 1970 it was discussed in Stereo Review, Audio, etc, damping factor could be degraded with too much resistance in the speaker cable. I test damping factor with a bass drum hit like that on ZZ Top Afterburner, Woke up with Wood track. However the top octave piano gargle sound I hear with zip cord is more probably intermodulation distortion between two high frequencies. An amp builder on here postulated a 17 khz vs 19 khz intermodulation test, which is not a quoted amp spec by anybody, but possibly would describe what I hear. However, my Army damaged ears roll of at 14.5 khz. BTW, I can't tell the difference between the cables with the unmodified ST70 (but recapped & re-output tubed) tube amp, which has quoted 1% harmonic distortion and sounds worse than either transistor amp I own.
As far as double blind tests, I live alone and can't even get any of my warm bodied friends to come and and listen to my stupid sound system. They really don't care how good or bad it sounds. Isn't the internet fun.
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A cable can be expected to be immune to signal degradation if it can be balanced, non-microphonic, shielded from interference, and connecting two well-defined impedances on either end. You can deduce which cables can fulfil the criteria.
This related post might have some relevant info.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/construction-tips/206022-made-measure-audio-interconnects.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/construction-tips/206022-made-measure-audio-interconnects.html
in any case i think it's safe to assume that the best solution would be-
speaker adjacent to the amp, then to the pre, then dac(dual mono) to where the only cable of any length is the one from the source to the dac which would be carrying a digital signal.
this would actually prove to be the simplest solution, too, appearance wise. because you could fit all the components into one box right behind the speakers and have only one set of wires leading to the source, not counting the power cables.
i would love to try this out with myref, aikido and a nos dac if i can find a suitable one.
speaker adjacent to the amp, then to the pre, then dac(dual mono) to where the only cable of any length is the one from the source to the dac which would be carrying a digital signal.
this would actually prove to be the simplest solution, too, appearance wise. because you could fit all the components into one box right behind the speakers and have only one set of wires leading to the source, not counting the power cables.
i would love to try this out with myref, aikido and a nos dac if i can find a suitable one.
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