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Old 21st July 2003, 06:55 PM   #1
bocka is offline bocka  Germany
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Question looking for spice models

I'm looking for some spice models:

2SK389
2SJ109
2SA1376
2SC3478
2sc3852

I've been searching at the web, unfortunately I've no success. Maybe anyone has some information for me?
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Old 21st July 2003, 08:41 PM   #2
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I have also tried to get spice models for Japanese transistors.

I even had my Japanese wife call Toshiba in Japan to see if they would point me in the right direction. Toshiba had them, but wanted me to promise that I would not share them with anybody. So I let it go.

I would have thought that there are SPICE programs for sale in Japan and that manufactures would make the models SPICE models availabe, but not that I could find.

My advice, try to do some backward cross referencing and copy and rename the closest 2Nxxxx type you can find. Or start with the generic transistor model and tweek the SPICE variables.

Good Luck,

Aud_Mot
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Old 22nd July 2003, 03:42 PM   #3
bocka is offline bocka  Germany
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Talking spice models found

I've found some of the spice models I'm looking for. And some others, too. I put them on my server, hope they are usefull for others.

2SJ72
2SJ74
2SJ109
2SK170
2SK389
2SK389BL
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Old 22nd July 2003, 05:41 PM   #4
Gunders is offline Gunders  Norway
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Thanks.. I have been looking for SPICE models for some of those transistors/FETs too but couldn't find any.
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Old 22nd July 2003, 05:52 PM   #5
sam9 is offline sam9  United States
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Try FairchildSemi. Their Korean unit makes some 2SAxxxx and 2SCxxxx devices. They replace the "2" with a "K" to become KSAxxxx and KSCxxxx. Iv'e been able to get SPICE models for some BJT's this way.
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Old 22nd July 2003, 07:53 PM   #6
Konrad is offline Konrad  Norway
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Anybody having spicemodell for lm3886 (overture)?
Looking for the possibility to simulate my glancione version.
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Old 22nd July 2003, 09:38 PM   #7
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Unhappy Unfortunately variety is the Spice of life.....

II don't believe these Jfet models are even close and post some alternate models. you would be well advises to read the definitions of the parameters and compare with the data sheet. The Bias group of the fet and the quiescent current at which you are using it will effect the model. Different models are often given for the particular bias group (Y GR BL V ) If you are not careful you will wind up with a simulation that is wildly different from the one you build and measure. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

http://newton.ex.ac.uk/teaching/CDHW...secB.html#B.14

http://www.ee.duke.edu/~hcc/DEVICE/node12.html



.model J2sk170 NJF(Beta=59.86m Rs=4.151 Rd=4.151 Betatce=-.5 Lambda=1.923m
+ Vto=-.5024 Vtotc=-2.5m Cgd=20p M=.3805 Pb=.4746 Fc=.5
+ Cgs=25.48p Isr=84.77p Nr=2 Is=8.477p N=1 Xti=3 Alpha=10u Vk=100
+ Kf=111.3E-18 Af=1)

*SRC=2SK170;J2SK170;JFETs N;Gen. Purpose;40V 20MA 35.3Ohm
.MODEL J2SK170 NJF (VTO=-.7 BETA=21M LAMBDA=19.95M RD=3.85
+ RS=2.35 IS=3.95F PB=1 FC=.5 CGS=85.4P CGD=22.7P)
* 40 Volt 20M Amp 35.3 ohm Dep-Mode N-Channel J-FET 12-10-1993

.model J2sk389 NJF(Beta=51.76m Rs=8.008 Rd=8.008 Betatce=-.5 Lambda=11.22m
+ Vto=-.5275 Vtotc=-2.5m Cgd=18.28p M=.3367 Pb=.3905 Fc=.5
+ Cgs=20.07p Isr=112.8p Nr=2 Is=11.28p N=1 Xti=3 Alpha=10u Vk=100
+ Kf=92.85E-18 Af=1)

*SRC=2SK389;QSK389;JFETs N;Gen. Purpose;50V 10mA
.MODEL QSK389 NJF (VTO=-2 BETA=20M LAMBDA=600U RD=7
+ RS=6.3 IS=1.58F PB=1 FC=.5 CGS=19.5P CGD=5.5P)
* 50 Volt 10M Amp 50 ohm Dep-Mode N-Channel J-FET 07-28-1995
* 2SK389, TOSHIBA, 1993 JAPANESE FET MANUAL, P.46

.model J2sj72 PJF(Beta=98.77m Rs=0 Rd=0 Betatce=-.5 Lambda=2.348m Vto=-.4509
+ Vtotc=-2.5m Cgd=146.3p M=.3167 Pb=.3905 Fc=.5 Cgs=142.1p
+ Isr=129.8p Nr=2 Is=12.98p N=1 Xti=3 Alpha=10u Vk=100
+ Kf=61.28E-18 Af=1)

*SRC=2SJ72;J2SJ72;JFETs P;Gen. Purpose;25 V 30MA
.MODEL J2SJ72 PJF (VTO=-1.65 BETA=35M LAMBDA=1.2M RD=4.04
+ RS=3.63 IS=9.48F PB=1 FC=.5 CGS=92.5P CGD=198P)
* Toshiba 25 Volt 30M Amp 28.8 ohm Dep-Mode P-Channel J-FET 11-18-1993

model J2sj74 PJF(Beta=92.12m Rs=7.748 Rd=7.748 Betatce=-.5 Lambda=4.464m
+ Vto=-.5428 Vtotc=-2.5m Cgd=85.67p M=.3246 Pb=.3905 Fc=.5
+ Cgs=78.27p Isr=129.8p Nr=2 Is=12.98p N=1 Xti=3 Alpha=10u Vk=100
+ Kf=26.64E-18 Af=1)

*SRC=2SJ74;J2SJ74;JFETs P;Gen. Purpose;25 V 20MA
.MODEL J2SJ74 PJF (VTO=-1.1 BETA=20M LAMBDA=1.2M RD=4.95
+ RS=4.45 IS=6.32F PB=1 FC=.5 CGS=52.5P CGD=115P)
* Toshiba 25 Volt 20M Amp 35.3 ohm Dep-Mode P-Channel J-FET 11-18-1993


.model J2sj109 PJF(Beta=39.21m Rs=0 Rd=0 Betatce=-.5 Lambda=4.338m Vto=-.5762
+ Vtotc=-2.5m Cgd=67.64p M=.2562 Pb=.3905 Fc=.5 Cgs=61.12p
+ Isr=158.7p Nr=2 Is=15.87p N=1 Xti=3 Alpha=10u Vk=100
+ Kf=109.9E-18 Af=1)

*SRC=2SJ109;J2SJ109;JFETs P;Gen. Purpose;30V 20MA 35.3Ohm
.MODEL J2SJ109 PJF (VTO=-.94 BETA=22M LAMBDA=1M RD=1.95
+ RS=8.45 IS=5.26F PB=1 FC=.5 CGS=252P CGD=90.1P)
* 30 Volt 20M Amp 35.3 ohm Dep-Mode P-Channel J-FET 12-10-1993


.model J2sk
170 NJF(Beta=59.86m Rs=4.151 Rd=4.151 Betatce=-.5 Lambda=1.923m
+ Vto=-.5024 Vtotc=-2.5m Cgd=20p M=.3805 Pb=.4746 Fc=.5
+ Cgs=25.48p Isr=84.77p Nr=2 Is=8.477p N=1 Xti=3 Alpha=10u Vk=100
+ Kf=111.3E-18 Af=1)

*SRC=2SK170;J2SK170;JFETs N;Gen. Purpose;40V 20MA 35.3Ohm
.MODEL J2SK170 NJF (VTO=-.7 BETA=21M LAMBDA=19.95M RD=3.85
+ RS=2.35 IS=3.95F PB=1 FC=.5 CGS=85.4P CGD=22.7P)
* 40 Volt 20M Amp 35.3 ohm Dep-Mode N-Channel J-FET 12-10-1993

.model J2sk389 NJF(Beta=51.76m Rs=8.008 Rd=8.008 Betatce=-.5 Lambda=11.22m
+ Vto=-.5275 Vtotc=-2.5m Cgd=18.28p M=.3367 Pb=.3905 Fc=.5
+ Cgs=20.07p Isr=112.8p Nr=2 Is=11.28p N=1 Xti=3 Alpha=10u Vk=100
+ Kf=92.85E-18 Af=1)

*SRC=2SK389;QSK389;JFETs N;Gen. Purpose;50V 10mA
.MODEL QSK389 NJF (VTO=-2 BETA=20M LAMBDA=600U RD=7
+ RS=6.3 IS=1.58F PB=1 FC=.5 CGS=19.5P CGD=5.5P)
* 50 Volt 10M Amp 50 ohm Dep-Mode N-Channel J-FET 07-28-1995
* 2SK389, TOSHIBA, 1993 JAPANESE FET MANUAL, P.46

.model J2sj72 PJF(Beta=98.77m Rs=0 Rd=0 Betatce=-.5 Lambda=2.348m Vto=-.4509
+ Vtotc=-2.5m Cgd=146.3p M=.3167 Pb=.3905 Fc=.5 Cgs=142.1p
+ Isr=129.8p Nr=2 Is=12.98p N=1 Xti=3 Alpha=10u Vk=100
+ Kf=61.28E-18 Af=1)

*SRC=2SJ72;J2SJ72;JFETs P;Gen. Purpose;25 V 30MA
.MODEL J2SJ72 PJF (VTO=-1.65 BETA=35M LAMBDA=1.2M RD=4.04
+ RS=3.63 IS=9.48F PB=1 FC=.5 CGS=92.5P CGD=198P)
* Toshiba 25 Volt 30M Amp 28.8 ohm Dep-Mode P-Channel J-FET 11-18-1993

model J2sj74 PJF(Beta=92.12m Rs=7.748 Rd=7.748 Betatce=-.5 Lambda=4.464m
+ Vto=-.5428 Vtotc=-2.5m Cgd=85.67p M=.3246 Pb=.3905 Fc=.5
+ Cgs=78.27p Isr=129.8p Nr=2 Is=12.98p N=1 Xti=3 Alpha=10u Vk=100
+ Kf=26.64E-18 Af=1)

*SRC=2SJ74;J2SJ74;JFETs P;Gen. Purpose;25 V 20MA
.MODEL J2SJ74 PJF (VTO=-1.1 BETA=20M LAMBDA=1.2M RD=4.95
+ RS=4.45 IS=6.32F PB=1 FC=.5 CGS=52.5P CGD=115P)
* Toshiba 25 Volt 20M Amp 35.3 ohm Dep-Mode P-Channel J-FET 11-18-1993


.model J2sj109 PJF(Beta=39.21m Rs=0 Rd=0 Betatce=-.5 Lambda=4.338m Vto=-.5762
+ Vtotc=-2.5m Cgd=67.64p M=.2562 Pb=.3905 Fc=.5 Cgs=61.12p
+ Isr=158.7p Nr=2 Is=15.87p N=1 Xti=3 Alpha=10u Vk=100
+ Kf=109.9E-18 Af=1)

*SRC=2SJ109;J2SJ109;JFETs P;Gen. Purpose;30V 20MA 35.3Ohm
.MODEL J2SJ109 PJF (VTO=-.94 BETA=22M LAMBDA=1M RD=1.95
+ RS=8.45 IS=5.26F PB=1 FC=.5 CGS=252P CGD=90.1P)
* 30 Volt 20M Amp 35.3 ohm Dep-Mode P-Channel J-FET 12-10-1993

http://newton.ex.ac.uk/teaching/CDHW...secB.html#B.14

http://www.ee.duke.edu/~hcc/DEVICE/node12.html
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Old 23rd July 2003, 12:16 AM   #8
Gunders is offline Gunders  Norway
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You're probably right.
I have spend some time the last month trying to learn more about SPICE and the models.
But I haven't studied FETs yet, I have you just studied the diode and transistor models, and I'm excited to see all the parameters and to play with them to see have they affect the results.
And I have downloaded some SPICE models from various manufactures, models for the same "transistors", but I found that the parameters did vary a lot, sometimes not very much, other times quite a lot.

The SPICE program I'm using use XSPICE, I have tried to find information about the differences between this version of SPICE and PSPICE.. and others, but it isn't very easy.

This week I also got some books from the library at school:
The SPICE book - Andrei Vladimirescu
SPICE practical spice modeling - Ron Kielkowski

By the way....thanks for the links
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Old 23rd July 2003, 07:50 AM   #9
bocka is offline bocka  Germany
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The Spice Book from Andrj Vladimirescu is excellent, some kind of bible...

FETs parameters always vary from part to part. If you take one part and get the spice parameters they will be different from another part and from a third one. Parameter variation from -70% to +200% is normal with FETs so don't bother.

Altough ist interestig what happens when using different SPICE models in simulation. In a good design this should not result in variing significantally. So its on yoou to look careful on DC bias points and if they are in that Range waht you expected. SPICE is only a design tool as well as a CAD-System. Making a good design it's on you.

Thanks Fred for the different models I'll try it. I do not expect a lot differences in a differential stage when using 2SK389 or 2SJ109. SE-Designs most often needed selected parts for IDss. I know where I'm talking about, because some days ago I tried to match some 2SK170BL out of a lot of 50. I'm happy to find some similar pairs but they differ from more than 10%.

This means that a robust design is much more necessary when using FETs vs bipolars.
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Old 23rd July 2003, 12:38 PM   #10
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Agree with Fred,

In my MicroCap-7 there is a whole bunch of Japanese transistors included, including the ones listed here. But most are far off the real thing so not very useful.

Cheers.
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