Thanks for the info on the MJ15003/4. Thankfully, mine are non-Al, and look very similar to the ones I got from Digikey, but the marking on them is smudged and not as clear and well printed as the Digikey ones. Also the surface finish looks different more of a "matte" finish. No idea how big the 2n3055 die is so I dont think cutting up one will help me, besides they are expensive--Rs 280 a pr!. Tho checking if they weigh the same as the genuine ones is an excellent idea. I got mine from Vishal (Sp Rd), who once sold me fake IRF3205s, (tho they were pretty cheap
). CeePee generally has the genuine stuff, never had any problem with him so far. One place you can be sure of is Amar, tho their "assistants" are about the most obtuse you can find.Your explanation of why the "low-tech" parts are readily available, while the modern ones arent, begs the question: Does this mean that the electronics industry in India is still stuck in the middle ages? I cant imagine who would today use NE592 (readily available) while there are much more capable (and quite cheap) wide band opamps with GBW of > 250 Mhz and capability to drive 75 Ohm loads, but unavailable here.
There was/is an excellent site (run by a guy called George George) which had a very useful description of the parts shops on SP road, and who sold what, but > decade old. I wrote and complimented him, but sadly he had moved to the US and no longer was updating this page.
I think it would be a wonderful idea to collate all the Desi "wisdom" in one place. Reviews of parts shops, where to find hard to find parts such as capacitors, glass wool, etc. Another "discovery" I made is PCB fabrication at home. After struggling with various toner transfer and other foolhardy techniques, I now can make my own PCBs the "professional" way, thanks to a very helpful PCB manufacturer whom I called right out of the Yellow pages, and who pointed me in the right direction.
Audio enthusiasts often need big Transformers, and usually end up special ordering them and paying princely ransoms. It is relatively easy to design and build a transformer for a fraction of that price. You can buy CRGO laminations of excellent quality from Tannery Rd, and Cu wire from SP road as well as phenolic board for the bobbin. Making the bobbin is the most difficult thing in the whole process. Winding is a piece of cake.
vkj
The 2n3055 die photograph is plastered all over the web, in textbooks and on this forum. It has a well-defined appearance with some 4-5 visible fingers in the B-E region and wire-bond attachments for B-E. Worst case, you can always cut up a Rs.20 BEL 2n3055 for educational purposes.
At Rs.140, your MJs may be real. I was quoted Rs.90 each for similar ones with ON markings, made in Mexico, at Shree (in the small alleyway with a bunch of CD, flash memory and other accessories shops). I passed on them, but may do more research on those later.
The best deal on power BJTs is Toshiba TTC5200/TTA1943 at sub-Rs.100/pair, but they're not TO-3s.
Yup, Chandresh at CeePee has surprised me many times with a stash of hard-to-find genuine stuff. Silver Micas, Japanese medium-power and power transistors, Wimas, Dales, Welwyns, Oscons, Elnas, etc.
Amar has lots of industrial stuff, but I only remember buying heatsinks from him. BTW, CeePee has a pretty good pre-drilled heatsink for 4x TO-3s for Rs.95.
The bulk of the volume is single-sided, through-hole, industrial-control sub-assemblies with lowest-cost components and connectors. So that's what is mostly stocked. The reason for using an obsolete component is that if there is a qualified and validated design using it, the customer may not accept a re-spin with current technology without a full re-validation cycle. This applies in particular to the defence PSUs like BEL, HAL, etc.
OK, here are my hang-outs:
Arihant: Jap electrolytics, rectifiers, some film and ceramic caps
Chetan: TO92s, chipamps, Japanese power- and medium-power BJTs, some specialty resistors and film caps, Japanese electrolytics.
VeePee: SMD only
Micro Components: SMD only
Kothari: NOS Toshiba JFETs, now sadly out of stock of 2sk170.
Universal: Some Wimas
Advanced Micro: Decent selection of Wimas, lots of obscure SMDs, rip-off prices on stuff claimed to be mil-spec.
Keltronix: NOS resistors in higher wattages and values from the tube era, NOS BEL vacuum tubes (mostly rectifier tubes and radio/TV tubes, rather than audio).
Goodwill: Every kind of hand- and power-tool imaginable. Better than Home Depot, Menards, Wal-Mart, etc.
Zenith Industrial Supplies: Every kind of coating, paint, adhesive, epoxy, lubricant or surface-treatment imaginable, and oddball items like BluTac and peelable solder-mask.
I gave up on home-made PCBs years ago. I now have them fabricated by Orion (double-sided, clearances of 20 mil and higher) and Circuit Systems India Ltd. (high-quality, clearances down to 5 mils, lots of surface-finish options, accepts Gerbers over a web-based online ordering site).
Pooja has decent EI trafos at reasonable prices. The expensive stuff is R-core and Toroidals - of which there are a few vendors mentioned at various forums: Salzer, Miracle and S.V.Troniks.
I could use a source of audio-grade OPTs in very small size and wattage, for use in a headphone amp. Basically, like the small trafos in transistor radios of yester-year, but high-quality epoxy sealed and multifilar-wound.
Folks:
Things have been so hectic at work and home that I neglected to post a note of appreciation here, for which I apologize. A month or so ago, I posted an inquiry about parts stores in Chennai. Several people responded and were quite gracious; Ashok was particularly kind in responding both on this thread and via pm. As it turns out, I won't be in Chennai for more than a day, which I will spend with my company's customers and prospective customers. I will, though, be in Bengaluru for a couple of days, starting this Saturday. If I have any free time, is there a place anyone can recommend for me to wander? My starting point is the ITC Gardenia hotel. Any advice would be gratefully received.
Many thanks,
Scott
Things have been so hectic at work and home that I neglected to post a note of appreciation here, for which I apologize. A month or so ago, I posted an inquiry about parts stores in Chennai. Several people responded and were quite gracious; Ashok was particularly kind in responding both on this thread and via pm. As it turns out, I won't be in Chennai for more than a day, which I will spend with my company's customers and prospective customers. I will, though, be in Bengaluru for a couple of days, starting this Saturday. If I have any free time, is there a place anyone can recommend for me to wander? My starting point is the ITC Gardenia hotel. Any advice would be gratefully received.
Many thanks,
Scott
S.P. Road is the main electronics parts market, and not too far from the ITC Gardenia - however, there isn't anything there that you can't get at Mouser or home-improvement stores, except maybe a few tube-era components.
There are a couple of audio equipment dealers not too far from ITC Gardenia - Vector Audio on Brigade Road, and Barbet Audio on Residency Road. The latter is within walking distance - perhaps about 500 yards away.
They're roughly equivalent to a US chain called Sound Advice which had stores in Florida and some other states.
Edit: If you're a book lover, your best bet is a 3-storey used-book store called Blossoms, on Church Street - also within walking distance. Not specifically audio-related, but it has a large collection of books on every imaginable topic at good markdowns.
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Hey LinuxGuru,
Please dont send the poor guy to SP Road
. Ive noticed of late quite a few foreigners wandering around in SP Road with a dazed look in their eyes and a frozen smile/grimace on their cherry red faces. Even a hardened Desi like me dreads going there. The awful noise and abs. chaos that reigns. And of late uncleared garbage of unknown vintage all along the street. Inside the shops you have all kinds of hi-tech business going on, outside bullock carts. Once I saw a bullock nonchalantly crapping on some poor fellas scooter seat parked there. And thats nothing compared to the jostling that goes on at the Vishal counter.Another time, I noticed a bunch of foreign tourists, mostly middle aged women wandering around in--get this--Avenue Rd! Guess the name must have fooled them. This was the time when helpful BMP had completely unearthed the road and yet, miraculously, traffic still flowed! Along the side of the road huge garbage heaps. On top of the mounds of earth piled up, quick traders had set up shop selling shirts and stuff. Amazingly not a single BMP worker in sight doing any of the repairs that were stated god knows when. The best part was that everyone was carrying on abt their business as if this horror didnt exist!
I swear Im going to ask the next tourist I see there exactly what they are doing there.
vkj
Thanks for that wealth of information!
I forgot to mention that CeePee once had a bunch of the MJ15003/4s. Being unsure I bought just a couple of pairs, and they were the genuine article. Unfortunately when I went back for more he was sold out.
Quite frankly I havent even heard of some of those shops you mention such as VeePee (any relation to CeePee--just kidding!). Does he sell SMDs in unit qtys?
Also what is "NOS"?
I used to wonder why the big boys would shop at SP Road. Then one day, I noticed a a fella from ISRO buying some comps. After some "negotiating" and "consulting", the bill was written up, with the buyer specifying how much the cost shd be padded up!
I would also add: Tectronix (sp?) near Univ. sells nice hardware such as switches and most importantly the big heat sinks. I prefer the undrilled ones, which he has. Universal Transformers (1st flr, opp VIshal), very good transformers. Never had one fail so far. When he says 500 mA, he means it. The size is closer to the "theoretical" one, unlike the usual stuff which defy the laws of electromagnetisim. Expensive tho.
Saini on the 1st flr near Vishal has LCD graphic displays useful for a diy scope. Jinanica (sp?) 5th street from Vishal on the right is the only supplier of ferrite cores.
The EI lams I got from Tannery Rd are 0.35 mm thick, CRGO. May be suitable for audio. Tho winding a small xfr could be a challenge. You could easily impregnate the xfr with that gooey stuff they sell, and a vacuum cleaner. Not sure why you would want to tho.
I have always wondered how you guys go in for the commerical PCBs. So far I have never been able to design a circuit that works straight off. Even after Spice-ing the ckt, there are always quite a few mods to be made, rendering your carefully made PCB looking like crap. I often have to make 2-3 versions. Making a PCB at home saves a lot of time and running around.
Im attaching the list prepared by Jim George that I mentioned last time (I wrongly referred to him as George George, my apologies).
vkj
For Scott.
Nothing like going to a place and seeing it for oneself. It's never exactly the same as a description given by others.
I think SP road is a must just to see how the local parts shops are. It's safe and most times I've been there it's been OK and not strewn with garbage. But of course it never has been clean , but then we have very few of those in any case !
The shops are a mixed bag of finished goods ( DVD players , laptops etc. ) and parts shops and tools . There aren't many parts shops worth looking at . Linuxguru has already listed them a couple of days ago on the same thread. Tools shops have most items displayed. So maybe you can manage on your own. Make a list in advance if you do want to look for parts. I've never bargained for prices and don't know if that's possible. Small tools are priced well. Looking at a window display might trigger a 'need' !
Generally speaking , as you enter SP road you will find finished goods shops with very few parts shops. OM is one shop that is on the left close to the start of the road. The others like Darshan and Amar and Vishal are further in , maybe about a 5 minute walk from the entrance. Tools generally start after all this. Read the sign boards, they are mostly in English .
The map. ( I googled "SP road bangalore map" )
S.P Road, Bangalore Map | S.P Road Google Map | S.P Road Directions - CommonFloor.com
You will find a road marked SJP road ( yellow) in the middle of this map. SP road ( white) is just above it and parallel to it. When I say entry point I mean towards the right end of that road. You then progress towards the left of the map. SJP road is a main road, SP road is a small , well , lane !
Have a great time !
Cheers.
Nothing like going to a place and seeing it for oneself. It's never exactly the same as a description given by others.
I think SP road is a must just to see how the local parts shops are. It's safe and most times I've been there it's been OK and not strewn with garbage. But of course it never has been clean , but then we have very few of those in any case !
The shops are a mixed bag of finished goods ( DVD players , laptops etc. ) and parts shops and tools . There aren't many parts shops worth looking at . Linuxguru has already listed them a couple of days ago on the same thread. Tools shops have most items displayed. So maybe you can manage on your own. Make a list in advance if you do want to look for parts. I've never bargained for prices and don't know if that's possible. Small tools are priced well. Looking at a window display might trigger a 'need' !
Generally speaking , as you enter SP road you will find finished goods shops with very few parts shops. OM is one shop that is on the left close to the start of the road. The others like Darshan and Amar and Vishal are further in , maybe about a 5 minute walk from the entrance. Tools generally start after all this. Read the sign boards, they are mostly in English .
The map. ( I googled "SP road bangalore map" )
S.P Road, Bangalore Map | S.P Road Google Map | S.P Road Directions - CommonFloor.com
You will find a road marked SJP road ( yellow) in the middle of this map. SP road ( white) is just above it and parallel to it. When I say entry point I mean towards the right end of that road. You then progress towards the left of the map. SJP road is a main road, SP road is a small , well , lane !
Have a great time !
Cheers.
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Yup, Chandresh mentioned that he used to stock genuine ON TO-3s, but isn't able to source them now easily.
VeePee is a 1st floor shop opposite Amar, Advance Micro, etc. run by a tall, thin, nervous guy named Manish - he doesn't appear to be on great terms with Chandresh of CeePee, though they don't actually compete on anything.
His stuff is authentic, and fresh off the reel. He will sell you as little as 50 units on tape of almost any passive in 0402 to 1206. Also diodes, transistors, MOSFETs, etc., but no JFETs. Nobody has SMD JFETs.
NOS = New Old Stock. Stuff that has sat unsold in shelves for years or decades.
Yup, forgot about Texonic - branch of the Chennai-based outfit. They have mostly the same stuff as Amar. Jinanica has some surprises, including Micrometals toroids and some Siemens and TDK stuff. Mangaldeep has enamelled Copper winding wire of various gauges, and Litz wire on request. Also SAC solder, but expensive in 1/2 kg rolls.
Thanks for the list.
I'm very careful with my layouts, and check and re-check everything several times before submitting the Gerbers. Even so, I've had to re-spin most of them at least once. So I'm mentally prepared for the expense and time required for respins. Circuit Systems is reasonably-priced, and will give you 5 boards up to a reasonable size for Rs.1.5k or so. They will allow you at least one no-cost opportunity to revise your Gerbers, helpful if you revise something within a few weeks of initiating the order. They're also the only ones who can do break-routed panels of my tiny SMD PCBs, again at a reasonable price for a few panels of 100 boards each.
@Ashok: I'd strongly second vjk's suggestion not to inflict S.P.Road on a first-time visitor to Bangalore. Church Street, etc., is more civilized. Scott can take a break at India Coffee House or KFC, MickyD or one of numerous pubs and coffee/snack outlets that dot the region. Blossoms also has stuff that is out of print and cannot be bought at Borders, B&N or Amazon, while the S.P. Road stuff can easily be sourced online.
Just a random idea, not sure if it will work. Just coat the laminate with either CRC Acryform or the peelable liquid rubber solder-mask. Use an exacto knife to carefully cut and peel off the sections to be exposed to etchant. Touch up the Cu land areas as necessary. After drying, etch it as usual. Remove the remaining peelable solder-mask on the Cu land areas, and drill the through holes.
This should be OK for single-sided, one-off designs.
Linuxguru,
Sigh.
. I wish I could wield an exacto knife that well. These days I find soldering even a thruhole component a challenge. Reminds me of the old days of enamel paint and a zero brush bought from Relaince. I look back at my handiwork of those days and marvel at my dexterity . Seriously tho, I have set up a good system for making PCBs using (a) my cheap Epson printer, and photopaper for printing, (b) Lith film to make a negative (c) Using the film to expose a board (coated with photo resist) to UV and developing (d) etching. The process takes a couple of days (for the PR to dry), and now Ive ironed out most of the kinks. Double sided isnt a major problem. If you have vias, you have to wire them using left over resistor leads, being careful not to have them under comps that render this impossible. To be on the safe side I dont use very thin wires, esp. these days when the CCs are of dubious quality, but you can easily go down to 8-10 mil. All the materials for the above are available in the BVK Iyengar Rd vicinity. The cost per board is peanuts. Probably well under Rs 100. Time spent neglible compared to that spent doing the routing and artwork. You do need the luxury of a dark room tho.
It would be great if there was a printer that could print directly on the CC. If you can have printers that print Tshirts and do 3-d printing how difficult would this be?
Digikey once sold a etch-resist pen that worked quite well. Had a very fine tip. The pens available at the local stationery store are OK for touching up, but I wouldnt trust them to sketch an entire board.
vkj
Folks:
It's rare that a place you've heard about turns out exactly as described, but SP Road was precisely that. Crowded, dirty, busy and noisy, but also interesting and a great place to wander. The larger road that interesects with SP was also fascinating, with blocks dedicated to computers, cameras, mobile phones, industrial equipment, metals and the like. I'll try to see a few of the cultural sites later today and tomorrow (it wouldn't be right for SP Road to typify my experience here in Bangeluru), find my way to Blossoms this afternoon and get a more nuanced perspective on this city.
Thank you for the advice and the warnings!
Regards,
Scott
It's rare that a place you've heard about turns out exactly as described, but SP Road was precisely that. Crowded, dirty, busy and noisy, but also interesting and a great place to wander. The larger road that interesects with SP was also fascinating, with blocks dedicated to computers, cameras, mobile phones, industrial equipment, metals and the like. I'll try to see a few of the cultural sites later today and tomorrow (it wouldn't be right for SP Road to typify my experience here in Bangeluru), find my way to Blossoms this afternoon and get a more nuanced perspective on this city.
Thank you for the advice and the warnings!
Regards,
Scott
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I forgot to mention an unusual surprise over the last few weeks at S.P.Road: the early-season mangoes from the push-cart vendors. About 1 in 3 of the mangoes is a Dharmapuri Alphonso (a poor cousin of its Northern relative, the Ratnagiri Alphonso - but still exquisite), while the remaining 2 in 3 seem to be Chitoor Badamis - which are a bit of a let-down. They run about Rs.100-120/kg. The main trick to improve your odds of getting an Alphonso is to pick the smaller ones with a distinct shoulder - i.e. the shape of the fruit is a bit triangular. If they're already ripe on the cart, the bouquet of the Alphonso is also distinctive.
Hey Linixguru,
Exactly how areas of "expertise" do you have? I wish I could pick them mangoes. "Shoulder" eh? I shd keep that in mind next time, tho my fav. is the "Malgoa". Any tips for those?? You sound like my mom
. I remember when she would buy them by the 100s, God rest her soul. Those were the days when Blore was Paradise!Do you cook too? If you can cook "Bassaru", youre the best! Decades since I tasted that!
vkj
Scott,
Congratulations on your "rite of passage".
. Im sure you would have found that shopping via Digikey/Mouser/Allied is a far saner way to go, as LinuxGuru had suggested. In fact Ive found that computer parts/accessories are cheaper via mailorder (eg. Flipkart) even in Bangalore. If you are in the market for older-generation electronics components then certainly its far cheaper in SP road.The biggest USP IMHO is the easy availability of industrial hardware and accessories. As you mentioned you can pick up all kinds of sheet metal, wire and rods, In retail quantities. Also any kind of chem. you want. No questions asked. This would be almost impossible in the US.
Sunday is the best day to sightsee since the traffic isnt as maddening, and since this is a long weekend, more so. These days most shops in the shopping discrict of MG road and Commercial Street are open. Not sure abt Blossoms, but Higginbothams on MG road is open Sundays. A short distance away is Commercial St. The best thing abt this place is that you can pick up pirated DVD movies for a few pennies. These are, it appears, obtained from the Russian Mafia
, and they are of decent quality, not camera copies. Someone has taken a lot of trouble to add sub-titles and print covers complete with reviews of the movie! The shops name is Visual World, and its inside a shopping complex on Kamaraj Rd (aka Cavalary Rd) at its intersection with Commercial St on the right. Its inside a shopping complex. There are others too, further down Kamraj Rd, on the right in a shopping complex called "Commercail Plaza".There is a park nearby, Cubbon Park. Inviting as it may seem, keep away. At the very least you will be accosted by various "fortune tellers".
Have fun!
vkj
Malgoa is generally always pretty good - the best ones have an earthy bouquet near the stalk when ripe. Nearly identical in flavour and colour, but even sweeter, smoother and buttery, is Himampasand, which is available right now at horrendous prices at Maha Bazaar outlets. I planted two saplings about 7-8 years ago in Chennai, and have been rewarded with lush green leaves - but not a single fruit in sight!
My favourite local variety is Mallika - it keeps forever at room temperature, and has a flavour comparable to or even better than the classic Alphonsos.
The best bang-for-the-buck is Banganapalli/Benishan at Rs.25-30/kg at peak harvest, and almost all taste pretty good. Late-season Rumani is also a good deal when bought by weight - it has very thin skin and a small seed, so the edible portion is maximized.
Incidentally, about 20 years ago, there used to be a seasonal wholesale mango market at Palace grounds. There were literally 100s of varieties on display and sale. I bought the huge Enugu Daata (Elephant's Tooth) at 1 kg per fruit there, it had good texture and body, but average flavour compared to a Banganapalli.
Nowadays, there's a retail mango fair at Lalbagh, later in the season.
I leave cooking to the professionals - I haven't heard of Bassaru, but I'm guessing it's some kind of thick Rasam. I quite enjoy the thick Tomato Saru, though that is probably commonplace.
Pics of a Dharmapuri Alphonso (about median-sized at 250 gms) from a push-cart vendor at S.P. Road, and an upgraded Marantz CD4000 I-V converter section with my LF03 discrete opamp, premium electrolytics and film caps. The yellow 390pF/630V axial styroflex in the foreground is a somewhat atypical NOS tube-era premium cap occasionally available at S.P.Road - this one was in a lot with a 1983 date-code, so it's about 30 years old. All the components in the LF03 discrete opamp were sourced locally, including the Japanese TO-92s and the Philips 2222 plate-type 2%-tolerance P100 ceramics - very nice-sounding for the price, if you can find them.
The Rubycon Black Gate STD and the low-profile Cerafine in the CD-4000 I-V stage are imports (not available locally, AFAIK), but there are some usable alternatives like Panasonics FC/FJ and Elna RE3/RJ4/RJJ/RJH which are sometimes available locally.
The Rubycon Black Gate STD and the low-profile Cerafine in the CD-4000 I-V stage are imports (not available locally, AFAIK), but there are some usable alternatives like Panasonics FC/FJ and Elna RE3/RJ4/RJJ/RJH which are sometimes available locally.
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Pics of a Dharmapuri Alphonso (about median-sized at 250 gms) from a push-cart vendor at S.P. Road, and an upgraded Marantz CD4000 I-V converter section with my LF03 discrete opamp, premium electrolytics and film caps. The yellow 390pF/630V axial styroflex in the foreground is a somewhat atypical NOS tube-era premium cap occasionally available at S.P.Road - this one was in a lot with a 1983 date-code, so it's about 30 years old. All the components in the LF03 discrete opamp were sourced locally, including the Japanese TO-92s and the Philips 2222 plate-type 2%-tolerance P100 ceramics - very nice-sounding for the price, if you can find them.
The Rubycon Black Gate STD and the low-profile Cerafine in the CD-4000 I-V stage are imports (not available locally, AFAIK), but there are some usable alternatives like Panasonics FC/FJ and Elna RE3/RJ4/RJJ/RJH which are sometimes available locally.
The Rubycon Black Gate STD and the low-profile Cerafine in the CD-4000 I-V stage are imports (not available locally, AFAIK), but there are some usable alternatives like Panasonics FC/FJ and Elna RE3/RJ4/RJJ/RJH which are sometimes available locally.