I'm running the ASC Oil-Filled Polypropylene X386 in my line stage power supply project. I'm just about done voicing and in thinking of a case these monsters present a problem.
Has anyone compare the MTube cap against these? I would like to get a little more speed. I don't know if the ASC caps have the old 'oil is slow' quality or not. The MTube sure are more manageable.
Anyone compare these two sonically?
Has anyone compare the MTube cap against these? I would like to get a little more speed. I don't know if the ASC caps have the old 'oil is slow' quality or not. The MTube sure are more manageable.
Anyone compare these two sonically?
He is using "audiophile speak", a sub-dialect of English.
An engineer would say he wants to lower the output impedance of his power supply by using lower ESR caps in the filter section. Same end result.
To answer the question I was browsing the Allied Elect. web site and found some caps made by GE. They are poly film but with good specs values like 100uf (or more) and 850V and under $20 each. They seem to be a low-pain upgrade from aluminium electrolictis for the last stage of CRC power supply filters. I almost was going to order but thought I'd wait until a few days before I really could put one to use. I forgot the intended application but it might have been microwaves or x-ray machines
Sorry I thought this was an "audio" forum.
The ASC caps are oil and metalized polypropylene not oil and paper caps. They have bandwidth of over 100kHz with excellent slew rates and very low dielectric absorption. IMHO they sounded better than the best electrolytics I've tried - yes including the black gate. I do not like black gates because they need to reform if left without electricity for long periods of time ie they have to break in again. I've witnessed this with Audio Note gear and the owner admits this. If they are left energized all the time ie power left on then they're ok.
As a friend stated speed is really determined by the dynamic output impedance of the power supply. That is determine by resistance, lead length and type, wire length, the DCR of the power transformer secondary , choke and the dynamic “K’ factor of the rectifier tube.
A capacitor has a slew or charging and dissipation rate, has dielectric absorption and a frequency bandwidth. In general order of ranking.
Film and foil
Metalized film
Oil and Paper
Electrolytic
In other word ChrisA is right. I just would like a smaller package.
This is a filter cap on the DC output side of the power supply - usually the last capacitor in the power supply before the load circuitry. Nothing to do with AC power input.
I am going through this experiment currently myself: Mundorf tubecaps (which I used sofar) va. Asc x386.
How longdo the ASC need to burn in ?
After 12 hours sofar my impression is:
Mundorf sounds faster, more trebles, more air, but less body and tone. The AsC sound rounder, fuller, slower, but with a richer tone / colour. Someone would say more technical/hifi vs more musical maybe.
Now...this is after 12 hours and I did not mix caps or anything.
Obviously in ideal world, I want both: tone and resolution / air. With what did you guys end up with ?
How longdo the ASC need to burn in ?
After 12 hours sofar my impression is:
Mundorf sounds faster, more trebles, more air, but less body and tone. The AsC sound rounder, fuller, slower, but with a richer tone / colour. Someone would say more technical/hifi vs more musical maybe.
Now...this is after 12 hours and I did not mix caps or anything.
Obviously in ideal world, I want both: tone and resolution / air. With what did you guys end up with ?
Be aware that metal case oil caps can have significant capacitance between the terminals and case. Depending on circuit location this has a measurable impact. In a 6BL7 parafeed line stage I found a grounded ASC in the coupling position sounded 'liquid' while a Kemet C276 was faster and airier. Measurements revealed the Kemet added almost an octave of additional HF extension, flat to 50 kHz vs -3 dB at 30 kHz. The ASC's capacitance to case was loading and rolling off the 6BL7
The Kemet has a plastic case. It's also dirt cheap and sounds great to my ear, preferable to Solens.
The Kemet has a plastic case. It's also dirt cheap and sounds great to my ear, preferable to Solens.
I find it funny (to put it mildly) that some Audioph ........... iles write volumes on *brand* and eschew such minor and irrelevant details such as ... uhhhhhh ..... capacitance
I guess 99.9999999% of schematics are WRONG because they insist on writing such stupid irrelevant details instead of what seems to be "the real thing"
I guess 99.9999999% of schematics are WRONG because they insist on writing such stupid irrelevant details instead of what seems to be "the real thing"
JM,
Did you have a bad day ?
I do not see a single word in your comment which has to do with the topic. You do not know me nor my amplifier nor my system. Same for rdf and his system. But you think you are allowed to comment and judge.
I suggest that the moderator is deleting your comments. This is just bad behavior to say it friendly.
Did you have a bad day ?
I do not see a single word in your comment which has to do with the topic. You do not know me nor my amplifier nor my system. Same for rdf and his system. But you think you are allowed to comment and judge.
I suggest that the moderator is deleting your comments. This is just bad behavior to say it friendly.
It's a low risk proposition at the price, would love to hear a second opinion after you give them a shot.
It appears JM is so fixated on "Audioph ........... iles" he completely missed the references to topology, mechanism and measurements. Would it help to mention the measurements were made with an Audio Precision APx515?
Indeed...I got like 8 of them with 30uF each all together for 20 Euro on ebay...
By the way, how did you measure ? Simply bandwidth of the whole amplifier or just the stage you used them in ? I have pmillets soundcard interface and a roland studio card ready to do some measurements...
By the way: The Asc Oil caps defintely have a looooong break-in process. Maybe not like the famois 400hoirs of the black gates, but they improve currently considerably. I let them play a few weeks in my system now and will then exchange and compare against Mundorf, Kemet and many others. But what happens currently is they gain a lot of resolution and trebles and liquidity stays, music is very easy to folow, nice, rich, but not dull or fat tone...just about right. The treble seems to be a bit more gentle, not overly present, but mid-range transparency seems to be even better than Mundorf...but let's wait for a few weeks...the Mundorfs played for years, so no fair comparison currently.
...andI am using them only in driver stage of my power amp. The power tubes stillhave 220uF per channel Mundorfs in. So, the right mixture may as well matter (as always).
By the way, how did you measure ? Simply bandwidth of the whole amplifier or just the stage you used them in ? I have pmillets soundcard interface and a roland studio card ready to do some measurements...
By the way: The Asc Oil caps defintely have a looooong break-in process. Maybe not like the famois 400hoirs of the black gates, but they improve currently considerably. I let them play a few weeks in my system now and will then exchange and compare against Mundorf, Kemet and many others. But what happens currently is they gain a lot of resolution and trebles and liquidity stays, music is very easy to folow, nice, rich, but not dull or fat tone...just about right. The treble seems to be a bit more gentle, not overly present, but mid-range transparency seems to be even better than Mundorf...but let's wait for a few weeks...the Mundorfs played for years, so no fair comparison currently.
...andI am using them only in driver stage of my power amp. The power tubes stillhave 220uF per channel Mundorfs in. So, the right mixture may as well matter (as always).
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Dear Blitz, please keep us informed about your experience with ASC, are they burning still?
I saw the Thomas at VinySavor uses them all the way.
Opposite, I found them very open sounding, but quite lightweigth in sound body.. and little mess in music after about 50 hours of run. Compared to audiofiler electrolitycs.
Best regards
I saw the Thomas at VinySavor uses them all the way.
Opposite, I found them very open sounding, but quite lightweigth in sound body.. and little mess in music after about 50 hours of run. Compared to audiofiler electrolitycs.
Best regards
IMO there is no difference between the square M-tube and the corresponding F&T cap. Not that there is a huge price differential anyway... And yes, i use those occasionally as the last cap in a PS as they are both economical and small.
What i find more difficult is to obtain a "normal" bass response from a PS which uses exclusively films. Perhaps bass is just not important for many single driver and horn lovers but it is for me. Sadly, i still cannot find a reasonably priced replacement for Cerafine as the main PS caps. Mlytic HV+ can match the body and improve on the bass, but they sound slow and unresolved in the upper ranges.
Anyone tried the 500v Kaisei?
What i find more difficult is to obtain a "normal" bass response from a PS which uses exclusively films. Perhaps bass is just not important for many single driver and horn lovers but it is for me. Sadly, i still cannot find a reasonably priced replacement for Cerafine as the main PS caps. Mlytic HV+ can match the body and improve on the bass, but they sound slow and unresolved in the upper ranges.
Anyone tried the 500v Kaisei?
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