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-   -   Counterfeit 2SC2912 (and others) (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/165167-counterfeit-2sc2912-others.html)

MCMElec 15th April 2010 09:18 PM

I'm Phil Minix, president of MCM. I can assure you that we do not sell counterfeit parts on purpose. We have been in business for over 30 years and stay around because we have reputable business practices. Having said that, I absolutely know that it is possible for us to be unkowingly sold counterfeit goods as this sometimes happens even through our trusted supply chain when it comes to ICs. If you ever have a problem or suspect this, please call us directly and enable us to attempt to make it right. We stand behind all of our products! You can call us at 1-877-626-3532 or email tech@mcmelectronics.com. Thanks!

Cal Weldon 15th April 2010 09:23 PM

Phil,

Let me be the first to thank you for that post.

Welcome to diyAudio.

fredlf 15th April 2010 09:34 PM

Phil,
And I the second to say thanks for the response, I really appreciate it and am impressed. I will be contacting MCM about my experience at some point soon, but if you can get through this epic thread you will have a pretty good idea of who I am and what has happened.

anatech 15th April 2010 10:33 PM

Hi Fred,
Once you have the amplifier running, please do install the complete compliment of output transistors and recheck your bias levels. That will create an amp that will not bite you down the road, because you will forget that it's one output short in time. Always try to leave equipment in a state were it behaves as any other of the same model would.

Hi Mr. Minix,
I too am impressed that you cared enough to clear the air and leave a post here. This is an extremely positive thing to do in my opinion. May I also suggest that you have an opportunity to really improve your market share.

You are tapped directly into a dedicated group of individuals who buy parts and equipment. DIY, so hands on people here. Many people here also are employed in situations where they use electronic parts in their work, many are also professional people as well.

You aren't expected to deal with every situation that comes up personally, there is a customer service department for that. However, you can get first hand knowledge from the very people who buy from you. Take this situation as an example. I guess you were not made aware that there was a possible issue with improperly marked components, however someone there should have known. At this point you can look into this a bit further in order to enhance your own quality control.

I'd like to also welcome you to this forum. I don't know where your interests lay, but I hope you do get a chance to interact with people here some.

Best regards, Chris

PB2 16th April 2010 12:12 AM

Hi Phil,

I think what most of us would want to know is what are your plans to insure that future shipments include only good parts? Are you willing to test samples out of particular lots based on lot codes? It seems clear that your current inventory is contaminated. Please feel free to contact me through here or LinkedIn if you'd like my contact info to discuss it further.

Best Regards,

fredlf 16th April 2010 01:06 AM

Counterfeit 2SC2912 (and others)
 
1 Attachment(s)
This thread has been moved from where it began..

Here are the facts I have ascertained testing the 2SC2912's I received from MCM.

I ordered these twice, several weeks apart.

I tested three from the first order with a 160v Lceo test. All failed, allowing over 5.5 amps of leakage.

I tested one from the second order. It failed spectacularly, going full open in a few seconds. I did not test any others in order to protect the amp power supply I was using and myself.

In fairness, I did buy two Toshiba 2SD424's and both passed the high voltage Lceo test with 0 leakage.

The "original" in the pic is the original factory part pulled from my Adcom.

PB2 16th April 2010 01:28 AM

Just wondering if you have a plan for confirming the Toshiba 2SD424s that you bought? Beta, Vceo, and the Hacksaw?

How do the markings look on them?
Are they red?
All caps or script font for Toshiba markings?
next line should be part number,
next line beta grade followed by date or lot code.
then Japan - all caps on the older parts that I have here.
Forgot you have examples in your amp to compare against.

anatech 16th April 2010 02:48 AM

Hi Pete,
I imagine that Mr. Minix would like to determine what the facts are first. Once this is done, he can look at the system in place to determine why it failed. Only then will he know himself what their direction will be. I don't even know if Mr. Minix knowns much about electronics and parts. They should have an ISO type quality guy on staff, and an experienced buyer who would understand how to keep a parts supply clear of "pollutants".

-Chris

PB2 16th April 2010 03:09 AM

Chris,

I have been in on meetings with one of the largest electronics manufacturers in the world, you would recognize the name, and they, who have procedures as involved as the Military are having major problems - there are no simple solutions here.

I wrote:
There was a recent cover page article in one of the business magazines about counterfeit parts that made in into Military equipment.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid...ml#post2138353

anatech 16th April 2010 02:56 PM

Hi Pete,
Absolutely!
The entire industry has been asleep at the switch for many years. Head in the sand? Many manufacturers had been warning of this for years, even to the point of indicating how to identify the markings on fakes. Even Motorola was commenting!

Once they all took measures to buy from the proper "authorized distribution chain", the problems were reduced but were still present. It wasn't until recent times when parts distributors began to inspect returned product against a clients purchasing records and even confirmed production numbers. Otherwise they will not accept a return. It took far too long for this to happen in my view. Even back in the 80s, I had adjusted my own buying habits to only buy from a clean source. I had more trouble with the OEM parts stock than I did from my normal general parts vendor! This is also why I began testing parts from each order and before I install them in any equipment.

From my perspective, there has been a lack of due diligence on the part of major parts vendors despite warnings from other segments of the industry. I don't know why this is the case, but it's certainly not because there were no warning signs. I feel strongly about this for the simple reason that I'm a nobody and recognized the situation and put measures into place right away to avoid these issues. The cost of using fake parts goes far beyond the cost of those same parts. It seems to me that the pricing of a parts source dictated procurement, rather than any quality concerns. Very odd.

Looking back on the post you linked to, yes. I remember reading that from you. You got a silent Hooray! from me for that. In fact, I started a thread some time ago here about these concerns.

-Chris


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