Better replacement for Wima MKS output caps?

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mtl777

Member
Joined 2007
Hi, I'm looking to replace the Wima 0.1uF 250V output caps in my TubeDAC-09 with something better. The following series are available at Digikey:

Evox Rifa PHE850
Epcos MKP
Vishay/BC MKP 419
Panasonic ECQ or ECW
Nichicon XP or XT

What would be your top three choices out of these?

Also, would it be better to go for higher than 250V? Will there be a sonic improvement with using higher voltage caps?

Thanks! :)
 
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mjf

Member
Joined 2009
QUOTE
Epcos MKP
Vishay/BC MKP 419
Panasonic ECQ or ECW
Nichicon XP or XT

What would be your top three choices out of these?
Also, would it be better to go for higher than 250V? Will there be a sonic improvement with using higher voltage caps?

hello.
mostly people change from mkt/mks to mkp......mee too.
a higher voltage rating can be a good thing......400v.....630v and so on......for safety. i cannot really answer if there is a sonic improvement......i would listen to it.
greets
 
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mtl777

Member
Joined 2007
oncle_tom said:
What Wima is it? MKS2? MKS4?
Click to expand...

Thanks for replying! :)
The Wima is MKS4.

oncle_tom said:
Go for Vishay/Roederstein MKT1822 or the Russian K-73 PEPT-Caps. Imho these Caps have no sound at all. MKP-Caps do add little colorations to the music, but this could be sometimes a nice thing.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately those aren't available at DigiKey. The only 0.1uF Roederstein I could find are the MKP1839 HQ but these are too big and are axial (I need radial). I would like to order everything for this project at DigiKey to minimize shipping cost.

I'm curious about the Evox Rifa PHE840M. It is described as an "EMI suppressor, class X2, metallized polyproplylene" with DF of 0.002 at 10 KHz. I have heard great things about Rifa in this forum, but do these specs look like the PHE840M is good for audio? I know specs aren't everything, but...

Another option is the Vishay BC MMKP 383. It is an "AC and pulse double metallized polypropylene" with DF of 0.0005 at 10 KHz. It has a lower DF than the Rifa PHE840M, but I have not heard much about Vishay BC. Based on DF specs alone, it seems that the MMKP 383 is better. Do you think it is better indeed? Would you choose it over the PHE840M?

mjf said:
mostly people change from mkt/mks to mkp......mee too.
a higher voltage rating can be a good thing......400v.....630v and so on......for safety.
Click to expand...

Thanks, mjf! :) I have read modding advice to replace the Wima MKS in my DAC with some better ones but they did not specify the particular brand/series to replace it with. My research on the Web has led me to believe that MKP is better than MKS. Also, that a lower DF is better for audio, and the DF tends to go down as the voltage rating of a cap goes higher.

PMA said:
Why would you think the WIMA MKS was bad??
Click to expand...

It's not that it is bad (damaged). I just read some advice to replace it with something better. :)
 
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mtl777

Member
Joined 2007
Thanks, guys! :)

I decided to buy three different brands/series of the caps in question:

Epcos MKP
Vishay BC MMKP 383
Evox Rifa PHE840M

I think these are the top three (in that order) of the choices available at DigiKey. I will give each of them a listen and choose what sounds best in my DAC.

Question: Do caps like these need a break-in period before they can sound their best? If so, how long do they need to break in? Due to the limited time I have for this project, I really wish they don't need any break-in so that I can just try one brand and immediately replace it with another if I don't like how it sounds. ;)
 
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AmCan

Member
Joined 2011
mtl777 said:
Thanks, guys! :)

I decided to buy three different brands/series of the caps in question:

Epcos MKP
Vishay BC MMKP 383
Evox Rifa PHE840M

I think these are the top three (in that order) of the choices available at DigiKey. I will give each of them a listen and choose what sounds best in my DAC.

Question: Do caps like these need a break-in period before they can sound their best? If so, how long do they need to break in? Due to the limited time I have for this project, I really wish they don't need any break-in so that I can just try one brand and immediately replace it with another if I don't like how it sounds. ;)
Click to expand...

I am looking now to replace some strange values in my HK 17 EQ like .056uf and .0027uf. I am going to have to go with one of these 3 brands as well unless I can find the Multicaps in these values. I am curious now to know how each cap sounded to you?
 
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AmCan

Member
Joined 2011
mtl777 said:
Thanks, guys! :)

I decided to buy three different brands/series of the caps in question:

Epcos MKP
Vishay BC MMKP 383
Evox Rifa PHE840M

I think these are the top three (in that order) of the choices available at DigiKey. I will give each of them a listen and choose what sounds best in my DAC.

Question: Do caps like these need a break-in period before they can sound their best? If so, how long do they need to break in? Due to the limited time I have for this project, I really wish they don't need any break-in so that I can just try one brand and immediately replace it with another if I don't like how it sounds. ;)
Click to expand...

I am looking now to replace some strange values in my HK 17 EQ like .056uf and .0027uf. I am going to have to go with one of these 3 brands as well unless I can find the Multicaps in these values. I am curious now to know how each cap sounded to you?
 
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Black Stuart

Member
Joined 2005
oncle tom gave you your answer PETP K73-16, bright at the top end to begin with but superb right from the get-go.

I removed an awful 0.1uF/160V Wima MKP 10 cap, the first cap in the pre-amp section of my hybrid amp and removing this crap and replacing it with a K73-16, 1uF/250V opened up my whole system.

These K73-16 caps are rated at either 5% or 10% but actually measure much better - the 0.1uF typically are either spot-on or within 2%.

Because they are so cheap, you can buy 10 of them and match them exactly, very important for coupling caps if you want a truly balanced response from your speakers.

You will be sick at wasting your money on those other caps.
 
lcsaszar

lcsaszar

Member
Joined 2004
The size might be also a deciding factor. PETP capacitors of same capacity and voltage are much bigger than polystyrene types. Polypropylenes are also bigger. Film & foil of the same type is bigger that metallized foil. It seems the general rule applies here: "size matters".
 
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AmCan

Member
Joined 2011
Black Stuart said:
oncle tom gave you your answer PETP K73-16, bright at the top end to begin with but superb right from the get-go.

I removed an awful 0.1uF/160V Wima MKP 10 cap, the first cap in the pre-amp section of my hybrid amp and removing this crap and replacing it with a K73-16, 1uF/250V opened up my whole system.

These K73-16 caps are rated at either 5% or 10% but actually measure much better - the 0.1uF typically are either spot-on or within 2%.

Because they are so cheap, you can buy 10 of them and match them exactly, very important for coupling caps if you want a truly balanced response from your speakers.

You will be sick at wasting your money on those other caps.
Click to expand...

Belief me I would love to use the PETP or the RTE for that matter, but can you find me a .056uf or .0027uf? Were are you buying the PETP from? I have the K75-10s w/FT3 bypass caps for my crossovers. However, in this instance size is going to matter as the space is designed for a 12mm long cap. I could squeeze a PETP in there if I knew where to get the non-standard values.

So my question remains, in the absence of availability, which is the better polypropylene cap to use? or polyester? Which poison would you choose?
 
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A

AmCan

Member
Joined 2011
oshifis said:
Perhaps you can use silver mica in that capacitance values. They are better than any plastic foil type.
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Good suggestion. I know the values are available but i will have to find them all in one place to keep the shipping costs down. If I do any comparison test I will report back on what I found to work well. In an EQ application I really want the caps to be as neutral as possible.
 
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