diy shunyata research (Helix Geometry) cable? - Page 4 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Design & Build > Parts

Parts Where to get, and how to make the best bits. PCB's, caps, transformers, etc.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 25th June 2012, 07:45 PM   #31
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
qusp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
sorry was your post supposed to argue against balanced interconnects?

skin effect has no meaningful effect at audio and certainly not power frequencies and you would want to use a much thinner conductor than 16awg if it did. you seem to be just regurgitating marketing buzzwords without knowing what they mean, or how they effect application.

there is no question your helical cable will only put MORE stress on CMMR of the system, not help it, your cable is a source of error; but it is very skillfully made

engineers are not lacking human qualities


Quote:
Originally Posted by krajnc View Post
And most critical point is microphone input at studio mixing console
or various microphone amplifiers and processors.
In home, only low level signal source is turntable.

Main problem is a cable. Every cable will change sound
due to internal impedance, and it will pick surrounding noise more or less.
There is no perfect cable on our planet.

With helix geometry you have a cable highly resistant to externally induced distortion, minimized distortion caused by "skin-effect" and minimized internal impedance.
Shielding may also be employed to help reduce noise from external sources.
And in home appliances, with helix cable, you can eliminate external noises in that level that balanced circuit will only degrade sound.

And, no I don' work for Shunyata
I am only a studio technician with great respect to my friends recording engineers.

Last edited by qusp; 25th June 2012 at 07:52 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2012, 09:49 PM   #32
krajnc is offline krajnc  Serbia
diyAudio Member
 
krajnc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zaječar
No I am not arguing against balanced interconnects,
it is used in all studios around the world,
but majority of home audio systems are fully unbalanced,
and lot of these systems work hum and buzz-free every day.
The headaches begin when one tries to add a balanced unit to
home system.
Equipment manufacturers do not use always the same solution
for balancing signals. Common problem is grounding.
Fully balanced systems provide the best performance,
but at home, you will need all equipment to be fully balanced.
Connecting unbalanced and balanced units together is possible
but it is not the best solution.
Studios around the world have all equipment balanced
but still have connectivity problems.

And I don't think that all people talking about shunyata are
marketing buzzwords.
Shunyata Research: Professional Endorsements

Quote:
"I've run out of words to describe the profound effect Shunyata Research products have had on the SACD experience in our studio."
-- Jon Truckenmiller, Sr. VP Engineering: Crest National Studios
__________________
OPPO 83, Stabi, PS Audio III Line & RIAA, Audio Innovation First, Energy 22 Pro, Kimber KCAG
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2012, 12:49 AM   #33
diyAudio Member
 
Speedskater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lakewood, Ohio
Every time I see professional studios endorsing wire and cable, I wonder if they pay the same (or any) price for the products.
__________________
Kevin
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2012, 01:19 AM   #34
diyAudio Member
 
vdi_nenna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: PA, USA
Blog Entries: 1
Send a message via Yahoo to vdi_nenna
We had a comparison between the Shunyata, MIT and my DIY Allen Wright 40 gauge twisted around a 3mm OD Teflon tube. The Shunyata was only slightly better. The Shanyata didnt go up against my Wright silver ribbons with Eichmann silver bullets...yet. The Shunyata were $6k list. My DIY 40 gauge were less than $10 a pair. Three people listened. We all heard the same thing.

Buy the book. Small price to pay for good cables.
__________________
I build, therefore I am.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2012, 06:46 AM   #35
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Blackburn, Lancs
Still waiting to be enlightened on 'skin effect distortion' anyone, please explain, my curiosity is piqued.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2012, 06:50 AM   #36
krajnc is offline krajnc  Serbia
diyAudio Member
 
krajnc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zaječar
I just trying to help people to make their own helix geometry cable.
I think that we are going off topic.

Cant wait to test my cables and post results.

sorry marce, here is it:

Quote:
Another distortion-causing problem found in audio interconnect
cables is the so-called "skin effect" occurring with
broad-band audio signals transmitted through multiple conductor
cables. Prior art cables with multiple conductors
exhibit an effect whereby high-frequency components of the
audio signal tend to propagate toward conductors around the
periphery of the cable while low-frequency components of
the audio signal tend to propagate toward conductors in the
center of the cable. The overall effect, thought to be caused
by electromagnetic effects of signals in the periphery of the
cable, results in signals around the periphery of the cable
traveling faster than signals traveling along the center of the
cable. This phenomenon results in a time distortion of the
signal as high-frequency components arriving first at the
destination followed by the low-frequency components
which started at the same time as the high-frequency components.
As a consequence, the signal arriving at the destination
is distorted from the original signal..
__________________
OPPO 83, Stabi, PS Audio III Line & RIAA, Audio Innovation First, Energy 22 Pro, Kimber KCAG
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2012, 08:01 AM   #37
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
qusp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
marce is an DSP, high speed digital and systems engineer, he just as I do, knows very well what skin effect is. We also know that it does not impact analogue audio frequency interconnection in any meaningful way, or power cabling with realistic sizes AT ALL.

its often used to try and sell audio cables, but they are stretching the truth and anyway 16awg has a full 100% depth at 11khz, so if it means something to you, you should be using something smaller. Your smaller wires will be working together to form a larger gauge anyway.

if you are worried about that and believe braiding will act as each signal conductor is separate, then you should be using 22-28awg for signal, thats the easiest and most effective way to tackle it for signals that dont have significant current

in a braid like you have there, IF each conductor acted as a separate entity, then any error caused by skin effect will be swamped by the real physical difference in the lengths of the conductors caused by the braiding, as well as all the other effects such as the capacitance, the crosstalk etc

for power conduction you still have 100% depth at 125Hz when using 4/0 AWG 11.684mm conductors!

its a real effect to be aware of with digital and RF systems, but line level analogue its not worth worrying about, if you do worry about it, just dont make 16awg XLR cables, use something more sensible like 20-28awg

but like I said its very skillful and the capacitance/crosscoupling for power cabling is unlikely to be a worry; for XLR its doing more harm than good.

Last edited by qusp; 26th June 2012 at 08:08 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2012, 08:20 AM   #38
krajnc is offline krajnc  Serbia
diyAudio Member
 
krajnc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zaječar
thanks qusp,

Yes, I find similar info in various books and industrial measurements.
I never try to engineering new cable, just to copy existing one.
Since this is my first attempt to do something serious with audio cable,
I will certainly experiment more in the future.
__________________
OPPO 83, Stabi, PS Audio III Line & RIAA, Audio Innovation First, Energy 22 Pro, Kimber KCAG

Last edited by krajnc; 26th June 2012 at 08:33 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2012, 01:36 PM   #39
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Blackburn, Lancs
Hi, they are nice looking cables, but as Qusp as stated, skin effect has a minute effect at audio frequencies.
I actually do high speed layout etc, and for my crimes agains PCB design I am sat in an office at the ABC centre next to munich airport doing a course on high speed signal integrity and power deliver system integrity. Even at the frequecies we are using for examples skin effect is not a consideration, high speed digital, DDR3 etc. When skin effect does kick in though for digital it is more problematic depending on whether the trace is routed as microstrip or stripline as the current density is not even. In microstrip the current density is biggest at the bottom of the trace, nearest the return path (usually a ground plane), so the calculators have even more fun and frequency dependent resistance start raising its ugly head.
Sorry to go on, but i do beleive in audio we are better concentrating on phenomena that realy degrade the signal and the related problems.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2012, 04:12 PM   #40
krajnc is offline krajnc  Serbia
diyAudio Member
 
krajnc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zaječar
Hi marce, I am glad to met here various specialists, and I am always ready to learn.
About cables, well, there is always some snake oil involved, but we love diy, it's lot of fun, especialy if you done something right.
Also have plans to build s/pdif cables with some cheap materials. Any suggestions?
__________________
OPPO 83, Stabi, PS Audio III Line & RIAA, Audio Innovation First, Energy 22 Pro, Kimber KCAG
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why do YOU DIY? Answer for my college research paper. gripracer Solid State 40 6th November 2009 06:53 AM
Preamp - DIY vs Audio Research (or similar) fourrings Tubes / Valves 20 21st December 2006 04:15 PM
Help with design/geometry for DIY table...designers wanted :) Glowbug Analogue Source 11 13th December 2006 09:58 AM
Shunyata Power Cords.... Voltaic The Lounge 10 3rd July 2006 12:44 AM
electrical cable for DIY speaker cable? leadbelly Multi-Way 7 13th January 2004 10:43 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:48 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2