Mr. Atwood I love you
Your insight gave me new hope in explaining my position.
I did not do anything special. These G-guys came up to me when I was a young man, with these transistors. Told us to go to this hotel in DC, and talk to these guys about the transistors.
We did as we were told.
Read the attachment, these are the items that I copied from the web.
It explains the that 2N2222A is a planar device in Jedec form. Military
Grade.
It also states that Jack pioneered angular process devices and star geo process, for the 2N2222, non military grade, for the development of transistors in the 1960's for mass production.
I know that Motorola, later on got into 2N2222A production. But their biggest honor comes from them making available silicon transistors to the masses.
That is all that I am saying.
There always samples of product being given to the government and the military, before the public have access. Because the cost of development is so high. The producers need to make a profit.
I thank you dearly Mr. Atwood.
And by gone will remain by gone.
Take Care.
Ivey
Your insight gave me new hope in explaining my position.
I did not do anything special. These G-guys came up to me when I was a young man, with these transistors. Told us to go to this hotel in DC, and talk to these guys about the transistors.
We did as we were told.
Read the attachment, these are the items that I copied from the web.
It explains the that 2N2222A is a planar device in Jedec form. Military
Grade.
It also states that Jack pioneered angular process devices and star geo process, for the 2N2222, non military grade, for the development of transistors in the 1960's for mass production.
I know that Motorola, later on got into 2N2222A production. But their biggest honor comes from them making available silicon transistors to the masses.
That is all that I am saying.
There always samples of product being given to the government and the military, before the public have access. Because the cost of development is so high. The producers need to make a profit.
I thank you dearly Mr. Atwood.
And by gone will remain by gone.
Take Care.
Ivey
Ivey, wow! pretty cool stuff!!
That jibes with my experience as the Ops Manager in a small company that developed certain development tools in the late 90's. We had engineers dropping by from the local chipmaker with samples of their latest stuff. Of course, it was all tight-lipped and took us a few years to get it from first draft and into the box for our clients. I remember that sometimes we got our hands on the mil-spec stuff and we were told no way that it gets into the hands of the client...so all locked up nice and tight.
Of course, the stuff was pretty hush hush in your younger days, as I imagine. I spent some time on the web looking at datasheets and noticed the JAN nomenclature on some.
That jibes with my experience as the Ops Manager in a small company that developed certain development tools in the late 90's. We had engineers dropping by from the local chipmaker with samples of their latest stuff. Of course, it was all tight-lipped and took us a few years to get it from first draft and into the box for our clients. I remember that sometimes we got our hands on the mil-spec stuff and we were told no way that it gets into the hands of the client...so all locked up nice and tight.
Of course, the stuff was pretty hush hush in your younger days, as I imagine. I spent some time on the web looking at datasheets and noticed the JAN nomenclature on some.
Sonidos, yes it is
C2, provide a smoothness of about 440,000 uf. Based on the Darlington values of the two transistor's gain.
That is, the gain of Q1 times the gain of Q2, times 220uf.
One of the things I discovered about the circuit, how stable it is.
Also, if you want, you configure it for HV use. Which is what I did in the Tube Phono Preamp. I posted that drawing on the forum as well.
Take Care
Ivey
C2, provide a smoothness of about 440,000 uf. Based on the Darlington values of the two transistor's gain.
That is, the gain of Q1 times the gain of Q2, times 220uf.
One of the things I discovered about the circuit, how stable it is.
Also, if you want, you configure it for HV use. Which is what I did in the Tube Phono Preamp. I posted that drawing on the forum as well.
Take Care
Ivey
Sonidos
What a lot of people do not know..., one could start a library.
People do not realize that products are created every day. And those creators have no idea what to do with their products. So they go to the military labs and tech shops, and they all ask this one question.
"Can you guys use my invention"?
I have seen hundreds of things in government warehouses around the nation, that is sitting there waiting for someone to come up with an idea on how to use it. Some have manuals as thick as a telephone book.
Sometimes, the inventors dies, and the government gets a free ride. Sometimes the inventors get lucky.
It is what people do not know that causes the problem. Because they all have been feed, so much miss information. That they will argue with you until someone dies.
Here are some truth and Facts
These are Germans, good men; all.
1. The designer and inventor of the ME-109, developed the first workable VSTOL in the late 1950's and 1960',. It looked just like the Harrier. Nato, killed it. When the inventor die. They take the technology to England. And the Harrier use born.
Why? Because, Nato, did not want to pay him millions for his ideas and talent. Better deal in England
2. The Horton brothers, who designed and built the first operational v wing fighter and bomber, died pennieless in German in the 1970's. Northrop used their design ideas in the B2 bomber, and paid them Nothing.
Making transistors is easy today. Growing chips, nuking them in your microwave. Anyone with half the desire to do so, could do it. With skill ,you could get them down to the size of a dime. But it can be done.
Yes, I done my share of black ops, in electronics. It paid the bills and brought lots of beer, chips, sausage, and soft company.
Just like today, there were hundreds of companies in the 1950's giving away their new creations, because they need someone to find a use for them.
No one knew what was going on back then, just like now.
Just like today, you can get on the web, contact a company, and have that company send you hundreds and thousands of dollars worth of samples. New technoloy, items that no one knows..., is available, until someone finds a use for it.
I am too old for Nano technology. But I wish I wasn't. I could make a lot of money.
Take Care
Ivey
What a lot of people do not know..., one could start a library.
People do not realize that products are created every day. And those creators have no idea what to do with their products. So they go to the military labs and tech shops, and they all ask this one question.
"Can you guys use my invention"?
I have seen hundreds of things in government warehouses around the nation, that is sitting there waiting for someone to come up with an idea on how to use it. Some have manuals as thick as a telephone book.
Sometimes, the inventors dies, and the government gets a free ride. Sometimes the inventors get lucky.
It is what people do not know that causes the problem. Because they all have been feed, so much miss information. That they will argue with you until someone dies.
Here are some truth and Facts
These are Germans, good men; all.
1. The designer and inventor of the ME-109, developed the first workable VSTOL in the late 1950's and 1960',. It looked just like the Harrier. Nato, killed it. When the inventor die. They take the technology to England. And the Harrier use born.
Why? Because, Nato, did not want to pay him millions for his ideas and talent. Better deal in England
2. The Horton brothers, who designed and built the first operational v wing fighter and bomber, died pennieless in German in the 1970's. Northrop used their design ideas in the B2 bomber, and paid them Nothing.
Making transistors is easy today. Growing chips, nuking them in your microwave. Anyone with half the desire to do so, could do it. With skill ,you could get them down to the size of a dime. But it can be done.
Yes, I done my share of black ops, in electronics. It paid the bills and brought lots of beer, chips, sausage, and soft company.
Just like today, there were hundreds of companies in the 1950's giving away their new creations, because they need someone to find a use for them.
No one knew what was going on back then, just like now.
Just like today, you can get on the web, contact a company, and have that company send you hundreds and thousands of dollars worth of samples. New technoloy, items that no one knows..., is available, until someone finds a use for it.
I am too old for Nano technology. But I wish I wasn't. I could make a lot of money.
Take Care
Ivey
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jlsem:
No..., that plane is still flying here in Cordubra, California. It shows up at local airshows around this area.
The N-9M was at Edwards Air Force Base for testing for many years, prior to Jack Northrop's building of his 4 and 6 engine prop flying wing bombers. Then when he built the jet engine version, the control surfaces were all wrong. There was too much lost of lift over the wings tailing edges.
I was incorrect on the dates of death of the Horton brothers, but they started their designs in the early 1930's, which inspired Jack Northrop to pursue that line of technology.
The answer to solving the lost of lift over the trailing edges was simple but without a trained eye and a complete understanding of flight as it related to nature, would go undiscovered for nearly 40 years in the US. Even thou they had stolen the technology.
The center section design, and trim flaps was the answer. The Horton brothers had already discovered it. Just look at their HO-229. Then look at the tail surfaces of the B2.
Today we use computers to do the larger sum of the work and thinking, in controlling the B2. But in the HO-229, one had to think first, prior to putting the plane through its paces. It was all cables and hyros.
If you check public records, as I do. You will discover, that in DC, we have all of the remaining/surviving models of every Horton brothers plane, at the Air Space Museum warehouses, and that the Northrop Engineering and Design teams spent 4 months recording and detailing the Horton brothers creations. Stealth, the Horton's did not only create a bitch of a plane. They also created "stealth".
Make no mistake about it, the British created stealth, in their Mosquitoes, but they were 70% wood. The Horton brothers did it with sheet metal. For Germany had very little aluminum available by 1943/44.
Have you ever wondered why the Germans were so set on taking North Africa and the Middle East. Oil..., right. Yes, but one of the biggest deposits of aluminum ore, out side of Australia, is in the Dead Sea.
Take Care
Ivey
No..., that plane is still flying here in Cordubra, California. It shows up at local airshows around this area.
The N-9M was at Edwards Air Force Base for testing for many years, prior to Jack Northrop's building of his 4 and 6 engine prop flying wing bombers. Then when he built the jet engine version, the control surfaces were all wrong. There was too much lost of lift over the wings tailing edges.
I was incorrect on the dates of death of the Horton brothers, but they started their designs in the early 1930's, which inspired Jack Northrop to pursue that line of technology.
The answer to solving the lost of lift over the trailing edges was simple but without a trained eye and a complete understanding of flight as it related to nature, would go undiscovered for nearly 40 years in the US. Even thou they had stolen the technology.
The center section design, and trim flaps was the answer. The Horton brothers had already discovered it. Just look at their HO-229. Then look at the tail surfaces of the B2.
Today we use computers to do the larger sum of the work and thinking, in controlling the B2. But in the HO-229, one had to think first, prior to putting the plane through its paces. It was all cables and hyros.
If you check public records, as I do. You will discover, that in DC, we have all of the remaining/surviving models of every Horton brothers plane, at the Air Space Museum warehouses, and that the Northrop Engineering and Design teams spent 4 months recording and detailing the Horton brothers creations. Stealth, the Horton's did not only create a bitch of a plane. They also created "stealth".
Make no mistake about it, the British created stealth, in their Mosquitoes, but they were 70% wood. The Horton brothers did it with sheet metal. For Germany had very little aluminum available by 1943/44.
Have you ever wondered why the Germans were so set on taking North Africa and the Middle East. Oil..., right. Yes, but one of the biggest deposits of aluminum ore, out side of Australia, is in the Dead Sea.
Take Care
Ivey
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The "stealth" aspect was really only a happy coincidence of the flying wing design. The Ho-229 was designed to reduce drag, not radar signature. It had a radar signature of about half that of a conventional twin engined propellor-driven aircraft, which isn't saying much. The F-117 has the radar signature of a pigeon, as it was designed strictly for stealth.
The Germans are given far two much credit for their aircraft designs during WWII. They had difficulty developing the BMW 801 radial engine that was eventually used in the FW-190 and they received help from Rudy Daub at Wright Aero, who was working on the RC-2500 at the time, in the form of informal pre-war correspondence. They soldiered on with inferior pre-war aircraft for the entire war and were never able to successfully develop an long-range bomber. The Me-262 notwithstanding, the most advanced aircraft used during the war was the B-29.
Furthermore, they developed the V-2 using Robert Goddard's inventions and data and you can bet they never paid him a penny.
John
Not very stealthy if you ask me.
Commander: What's that on the radar screen?
Radar operator: It's only a pigeon, sir.
Commander: Flying at mach 2?
se
You are correct in many areas:BUT
For 1940 radar technology, the HO-229, was a stealth aircraft. They had a small signature, for a plane that did not use composites.
Curtiss-Wright did go to German to assist them in their technology and in the end help them get that engine running. It was a partnership deal, not a, "as your friend and follow human being I will help" kind of a relationship.
Curtis-Wright's biggest selling engine was the R-1820. From various improvements it went from 950 hp to a whopping 1800 hp, supercharged. But the design, had reached its limits.
Great American aircraft used the R-1820 engine, F4F Wildcat, B17A-G, Ventura, AT6.
Curtiss-Wright need a multi-row cylinder engine to compete against the Pratt-Whitney R-2800 engine. Which saw service the P47, F6F Hellcat, and the F4U.
Most of the new bombers that was being built used the Pratt-Whitney R1830 engine, like the B24 Lib's, PBY Catalinas.
When Boeing went looking for an engine for the B29, there wasn't one. Even the PW R2800 was not strong enough to provide the speed that AAF (Army Air Force) wanted.
So..., Curtiss-Wright invoked their partnership rights against the makers of the FW-190 engine, and developed the Curtiss-Wright R-3350 for use in the B29. Using the technology he obtained during their business dealing.
Under the Wars Act of 1917, Curtiss-Wright had to stop business relations with Germany, when Hitler declared war on us Dec. 8, 1941.
Please, and if you want, I will fax you my layoff notice from Lockheed Martin. I worked on the electronic black boxs for the F-117A. It is slow and no bird flies at 735mph. So a radar signature of a bird at .9 mach, will draw some attention.
Besides one was shot down over Bosnia in 1999. Using 25 year old Russian SAMS.
I am no lover of Nazi Germany, and they did fail to build a long range bomber. Only because, they never needed one. Generals of Nazi Germany was more surprised than the people they over ran, that it happen so quickly. And they advance as far as they did. But the Condor, was more than capable of bombing New York from France, on one-way missions. In fact, Goring fought his own troops to stop them from bring the idea to Hilter in Dec., 1941. And far the Germans using old designs throuhtout the war. So did we, the Bi7, P40,P38, and a host of others
And it was the Wright R2600, not the R2500. It was twin-row grossly underpowered 14 cylinder engine, max hp. 1600hp.
Take Care
Ivey
PS. I was a Cub Air Cadet, during the War. All of us children did our bit for the war effort.
For 1940 radar technology, the HO-229, was a stealth aircraft. They had a small signature, for a plane that did not use composites.
Curtiss-Wright did go to German to assist them in their technology and in the end help them get that engine running. It was a partnership deal, not a, "as your friend and follow human being I will help" kind of a relationship.
Curtis-Wright's biggest selling engine was the R-1820. From various improvements it went from 950 hp to a whopping 1800 hp, supercharged. But the design, had reached its limits.
Great American aircraft used the R-1820 engine, F4F Wildcat, B17A-G, Ventura, AT6.
Curtiss-Wright need a multi-row cylinder engine to compete against the Pratt-Whitney R-2800 engine. Which saw service the P47, F6F Hellcat, and the F4U.
Most of the new bombers that was being built used the Pratt-Whitney R1830 engine, like the B24 Lib's, PBY Catalinas.
When Boeing went looking for an engine for the B29, there wasn't one. Even the PW R2800 was not strong enough to provide the speed that AAF (Army Air Force) wanted.
So..., Curtiss-Wright invoked their partnership rights against the makers of the FW-190 engine, and developed the Curtiss-Wright R-3350 for use in the B29. Using the technology he obtained during their business dealing.
Under the Wars Act of 1917, Curtiss-Wright had to stop business relations with Germany, when Hitler declared war on us Dec. 8, 1941.
Please, and if you want, I will fax you my layoff notice from Lockheed Martin. I worked on the electronic black boxs for the F-117A. It is slow and no bird flies at 735mph. So a radar signature of a bird at .9 mach, will draw some attention.
Besides one was shot down over Bosnia in 1999. Using 25 year old Russian SAMS.
I am no lover of Nazi Germany, and they did fail to build a long range bomber. Only because, they never needed one. Generals of Nazi Germany was more surprised than the people they over ran, that it happen so quickly. And they advance as far as they did. But the Condor, was more than capable of bombing New York from France, on one-way missions. In fact, Goring fought his own troops to stop them from bring the idea to Hilter in Dec., 1941. And far the Germans using old designs throuhtout the war. So did we, the Bi7, P40,P38, and a host of others
And it was the Wright R2600, not the R2500. It was twin-row grossly underpowered 14 cylinder engine, max hp. 1600hp.
Take Care
Ivey
PS. I was a Cub Air Cadet, during the War. All of us children did our bit for the war effort.
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Thats right.
At Lockheed Martin, North American, Republic, Consolidated, if you were on a government project team; you had steak to eat for as long as the project was in funding. When it ended, you kissed butt trying to get on another government funded project. Or you were laid off, sent to God knows where, or farmed out to some other company, that they owed favors too.
Or worse yet, sent to work on submarines. If any one at this forum served on submarines. Speak now or remain silent. Repairing the level indicators in the waste collecting tanks, diesel tanks, and sumps. Hated it.
Skunk Works.., is the ultima of cut throat, back stabbing U. Even your own trainee, is looking to take your position. Pressssssure!!!! Cover thy Buttttt.
"I cant't believe that..............,somebodies watching Meeeeeeeee"
"Skunk Works have no privacy".
O.K., yes, use any combo of zeners.
Take Care
Ivey
At Lockheed Martin, North American, Republic, Consolidated, if you were on a government project team; you had steak to eat for as long as the project was in funding. When it ended, you kissed butt trying to get on another government funded project. Or you were laid off, sent to God knows where, or farmed out to some other company, that they owed favors too.
Or worse yet, sent to work on submarines. If any one at this forum served on submarines. Speak now or remain silent. Repairing the level indicators in the waste collecting tanks, diesel tanks, and sumps. Hated it.
Skunk Works.., is the ultima of cut throat, back stabbing U. Even your own trainee, is looking to take your position. Pressssssure!!!! Cover thy Buttttt.
"I cant't believe that..............,somebodies watching Meeeeeeeee"
"Skunk Works have no privacy".
O.K., yes, use any combo of zeners.
Take Care
Ivey
Yes, Serge;
The PDR 66, is a neutron detector. Used in our R-5 Sections. Yet we only got into Neutron Detection when we understood its dangers and its potential use in weapons technology, in the Mid 1960's. We used more sensitive transistors like the JAN2N2428 or the JAN2N930, in the input frontal sections. We even used JFets.
But we used other detector as well, for gamma, beta, alpha, like the PDR 27 and PDR 45. These at one point used Ge grade transisstors, until their redesign took place.
Serge, we in the USA, did not always just play military recordings on those phono's 24/7. We played some Elvis, Dean Martin, Patti Page, etc., as well.
So, why are you so concern about neutron detection in the first place. You guys have your valleys, mountains, and beautiful rolling hills in the Swiss country side to concern yourselves about. Not to mention the care and safe keeping of billions of gold Swiss Francs of the worlds money.
The only thing that I could think of that would get you to be that concerned about neutron detection, is that you discovered a deposit of U234, in those mountains of yours.
Can I invest. We can develop it into U235 weapons grade. Works for me.
Take Care.
Ivey
The PDR 66, is a neutron detector. Used in our R-5 Sections. Yet we only got into Neutron Detection when we understood its dangers and its potential use in weapons technology, in the Mid 1960's. We used more sensitive transistors like the JAN2N2428 or the JAN2N930, in the input frontal sections. We even used JFets.
But we used other detector as well, for gamma, beta, alpha, like the PDR 27 and PDR 45. These at one point used Ge grade transisstors, until their redesign took place.
Serge, we in the USA, did not always just play military recordings on those phono's 24/7. We played some Elvis, Dean Martin, Patti Page, etc., as well.
So, why are you so concern about neutron detection in the first place. You guys have your valleys, mountains, and beautiful rolling hills in the Swiss country side to concern yourselves about. Not to mention the care and safe keeping of billions of gold Swiss Francs of the worlds money.
The only thing that I could think of that would get you to be that concerned about neutron detection, is that you discovered a deposit of U234, in those mountains of yours.
Can I invest. We can develop it into U235 weapons grade. Works for me.
Take Care.
Ivey
You're assuming that the pigeon figure is accurate. Not to mention the distribution of the RCS...
I believe the most accurate figure, according the the actual method used to determine relative radar signature, is that the F-117 has the equivalent radar signature of a one inch diameter aluminum sphere.
My point to begin with, however, was that the Horten Ho-229 was never a stealthy aircraft. Airborne centimetric radar was available to the allies long before it ever flew and it would have been a relatively easy target for the P-61 night fighter.
John
P61 Black Widow:
I am sorry John that you feel that way about the Horton Brothers plane. But I recommend that you look over the spec's. of allied radar abilities.
The HO-229, never left German AirSpace, so allied radar had no idea what its radar signature would look like. Besides that John, its cross area was a mere 1.3 meters.
So you are telling me, that a plane in a 20' dive, going past a mach 1, about the visual size of a two month old child. You could see it, before you even heard it.
People in Vietnam, would love to use you for "early warning". they could not even see or hear the F-105's coming at 200 feet, at mach 1.2.
The P61, was not in Germany, it was in the Med and the Pacific. Its radar was weak, and had a range of only 5 miles. It was in great use as a navigational aid for planes returning from missions. Its cost and use during the war was small.
Take Care.
Ivey.
I am sorry John that you feel that way about the Horton Brothers plane. But I recommend that you look over the spec's. of allied radar abilities.
The HO-229, never left German AirSpace, so allied radar had no idea what its radar signature would look like. Besides that John, its cross area was a mere 1.3 meters.
So you are telling me, that a plane in a 20' dive, going past a mach 1, about the visual size of a two month old child. You could see it, before you even heard it.
People in Vietnam, would love to use you for "early warning". they could not even see or hear the F-105's coming at 200 feet, at mach 1.2.
The P61, was not in Germany, it was in the Med and the Pacific. Its radar was weak, and had a range of only 5 miles. It was in great use as a navigational aid for planes returning from missions. Its cost and use during the war was small.
Take Care.
Ivey.
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You need to do a little more research on this subject. The P-61 was stationed in Belgium during WWII and enjoyed good success in shooting down German reconnaissance aircraft. Sure, it's radar had a range of only five miles but it was guided to close proximity by ground radar and used its unit to range and shoot down aircraft. The radar employed was S-band and could have tracked and shot down an Ho-229 cruising blissfully along at 400 mph towards its mission in the wee hours.
You ought to cut out the condescending remarks - Vietnam and all that. It's not necessary.
John
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