2N2222A transistor and transisitor history - Page 9 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Design & Build > Parts

Parts Where to get, and how to make the best bits. PCB's, caps, transformers, etc.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 28th January 2010, 04:44 AM   #81
diyAudio Member
 
john curl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: berkeley ca
Ivey, while I don't agree with you as to the numbering, I did with many of the same transistors, back in the mid '60's, first the 2N404, then the 2N697, then to the 2N1304 and 2N1305 ge complementary devices. Later, of course, came the 2N2222,2N2907 and finally the 2N4401 and 2N4403 in 1968. Often the 4401 and the 2222 are inter-changable, so don't worry too much, everyone. Virtually all the numbers are filled in by someone, so it must just be a sequential numbering order.
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th January 2010, 05:04 AM   #82
Ivey is offline Ivey  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Ivey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ann Abor, Michigan
Default Wavebourn

Yes, that is true, I remembering see that design from Russia. Was that really you?

Our CIA, was better in those days, they collected everything, even if it was not of military importance.

Did you guys get your hands of some our designs back then. It was from one of the AN/G76 1959-1966. We had stop using that design. Replace it with IBM 8"computer recorder disk. We were into early digital recordings. 4 and 8 bit 8000 and 8080 computer setups.

We went over most Russian designs with a fine tooth comb. That was How we knew that the SSN6 were not effective. And that the TU4 was not that good of a copy.

I was in Germany in 1959 looking over the building of their Airforce with F-84 swept wing jet. Trying to cross patch their radar tracking of Russian and East German Mig-17's,19's, and SU-7's at that time. I was given access to Russian listening equipment, that some how made its way into West Germany at the time.

I have some Russian transistors of the seventies. KT701, 707. Very high gain units. Almost a copy of the BC548. It is built on the Pro Electron base dies.

I will have my son purchase the PCB package tomorrow.

Take Care

Ivey

Last edited by Ivey; 28th January 2010 at 05:10 AM. Reason: grammar
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th January 2010, 05:32 AM   #83
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Send a message via Skype™ to Wavebourn
Hi Ivey;

No, it most probably was not my design, but somebody else's: all transistors have 3 legs, and it was logical to come to this solution that was used everywhere, in many variations, like opamps brought new variations later.

I was never involved in military projects, trying always to know less secrets in order to sleep better, but I heard a rumor that KGB did the same as CIA did: they were stealing everything they could. Unfortunately, sometimes authorities were convinced by spooks that you Americans had superior technologies, so forced our engineers to close perspective projects and start copying what they stole. My speculation is, they wanted to justify money they were spending on an espionage. Such a way many good projects were killed, and Russian electronics was planned to follow obsolete American developments.

About Tu-4 I heard even funnier story: Stalin demanded to copy everything. That's why radio transmitter (IIRR TR-13?) was made with holes in the case, originally made by Japanese machine-gun. People were afraid to question Stalin's order, it was very dangerous. My father got 25 years in 1947, but fortunately was released from jail in 1954, after Stalin's death. Being in Rokossovsky's staff, they got used to criticize Stalin and other top management, but after the war was over the history "had to be rewritten", so all critics lost all privileges and went to Siberian jail. That's why I was born in Siberia.
__________________
The Devil is not so terrible as his math model is!

Last edited by Wavebourn; 28th January 2010 at 05:34 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th January 2010, 05:53 AM   #84
tmblack is offline tmblack  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UK
Are they any sonic differences between the planar and epitaxial transistors?
Metal 2n2222A or plastic PN2222A packaging?
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th January 2010, 07:16 AM   #85
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Send a message via Skype™ to Wavebourn
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmblack View Post
Are they any sonic differences between the planar and epitaxial transistors?
Like between United and Kingdom?
__________________
The Devil is not so terrible as his math model is!
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th January 2010, 01:58 PM   #86
Ivey is offline Ivey  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Ivey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ann Abor, Michigan
Default tmblack

Yes, there is a big differenc.

Metal sealed 2N2222A's, most are military grade. Not to the higher Mil-Std 196A, but to the Mil-Std 196E. But still a far cry from the PN2222A, that is to the standards set by the country where the item is made.

PN2222A's, made in Japan, is made to the Japanese Industrial Standards, which are very close to Mil-Std 196A, set in 1953 towards all military components and electronic equipment.

A PN2222A, made in Taiwan, Korea, China, or India. Are made to those nations Industrial Standards. It allows for the products to be made cheaper, with inexpensive labor.

Most of those nations do use UL standards and FCC standards, which allows them to export their items to the United States, Canada, and other British Holdings.

If you are able to obtain a PN2222A, made in the US. Please let me know. I will buy 200 of them before they are all sold. Because the sonic difference is not there. But from 1973, on ward. Those items were coming from the various ponds around the world.

If you want to use a PN2222A, it will sound ok. But a 2N4401, will do a much better job for sound. It is thicker than the PN2222A chip. It osc far less at odd freq. And handles current a little better. It also has a lower freq range, not too much less; but lesser.

Doug DeMaw published a great deal of information on the 2N4401 useage, so I am telling you things that I read and know for sure. I tried them all out myself.


Take Care


Ivey
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th January 2010, 03:51 PM   #87
diyAudio Member
 
john curl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: berkeley ca
There was this Russian guy in the 70's who contributed circuits to 'Wireless World'. He emigrated, to NY, USA. I spoke to him a few times. He felt that the rest of us stole all his ideas, and he called us all kinds of interesting names. Wavebourn could probably remind me what those names were (although he never uses them, himself) but they were very quaint.
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th January 2010, 04:41 PM   #88
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmblack View Post
Are they any sonic differences between the planar and epitaxial transistors?
Metal 2n2222A or plastic PN2222A packaging?
Planar and epitaxy (the "layer" diffused into the raw silicon on which the transistor is produced) are part of the same thing.

PNxxxx is just a cheaper package of the metal 2Nxxxx using EXACTLY the same die. However different manufacturers will use different die layouts - they only have to meet the minimum specifications.

You may need to listen to them both to hear a difference - there is no evidence for it.

The 2N2222 is in no way a special or magic device, despite Walter Mitty. However it has always been a good rugged workhorse device and I must have used/specified thousands of them over the last 40 years.
  Reply With Quote
Old 28th January 2010, 05:12 PM   #89
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Send a message via Skype™ to Wavebourn
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffforrest View Post
Planar and epitaxy (the "layer" diffused into the raw silicon on which the transistor is produced) are part of the same thing.
That's why I asked about the difference, "Like between United and Kingdom"?
__________________
The Devil is not so terrible as his math model is!
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th January 2010, 03:07 AM   #90
Ivey is offline Ivey  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Ivey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ann Abor, Michigan
Default cliff:

And to all others>

I will give my last and finial statement on this. Because it has come to a point that there too many persons with the idea or ideas, that just because they have some knowledge or information on this submit. They can argue the matter until the Sulu Sea freezes over.

Now Cliff, lets you and I, get one thing correct.

You are wrong. Not incorrect, but wrong.

Motorola, made the first 2N2222 in TO-92. The MPS2222. One year later, they released the MPS2222A. They did the same thing with the MPS2907, followed by the MPS2907A. In the same order

Motorola was not sure that TO-92 case was going to be successful.
Those transistors were exact copies, not the PN2222 or PN2222A

Motorola required cash for their heavy entry into computer chip making. They were far behind Intel, Texas Instruments, and others.

Motorola/Freescale, leased their entire transistor lines to Texas Instrument, Central, and other semiconductor makers. offering them a chance to produce Mil Spec transistors without the investment into R & D.

You may have used the PN2222A Ciff, and got what you consider good results. But the PN2222A was and is a cheaper version of the MPS2222A.
Not the 2N2222A.

If you were to check the data sheet of a PN2222A. You would discovered that it was made for the use in telephone communications and industrial lite switching chores. And not for general purpose use, that covers audio. Remember that telecommunication audio freq. are not hi fi.

The problem is..., is that so many people drifted to the PN2222A because of its cheap cost, that retailers, not the transistor makers; list it as a GP transistor when it is not.

Texas Instrument did the final development on the PN2222A, prior to its over sea manufacturing. The PN2222A and PN3869A use the similar wafer doping.

This subject is now closed for me. I will no longer reply.

Take Care

Ivey
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Warfedale history anyone? Pbassred Multi-Way 1 13th January 2007 12:05 AM
Transmission Electronics Ltd- History? erdebear Multi-Way 1 2nd January 2005 06:08 PM
TRansisitor...?? zorb_rules Car Audio 0 26th June 2004 06:27 AM
PASSed History mrfeedback Pass Labs 5 29th May 2002 02:25 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:34 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2