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Old 29th January 2010, 04:58 AM   #91
Ivey is offline Ivey  United States
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Default What an old Fool I am

Cliff:

You may never want speak to this old fool again.

But you are correct in one sense and I was correct in another.

To all members. MY knowledge is long and vast. But businees mens greed is more vast.

I wish to say to all members and to Cliff the most.

I am very sorry for my out burst and quick judgement.

If any of our members out there have a Motorola Semiconductor MasterSelection Guide dated 1995. Turn to page number 5.1-7.

There you will see the truth.

When Motorola left the transistor business, it leased its technology. And its Freescale division started selling transistor under its own name as well. Now there are PN2222A's being sold as general purpose transistors.

Motorola list it as P2N2222A. Others as PN2222A. Which is
P=Plastic
N=transistor
id # 2222A
There is no need to list the 2, because we all know that a bjt has 2 junctions.

At DataSheet.Com, Motorola is no longer listed under PN2222A.

Cliff..., I am indeed sorry.

Take Care

Ivey

Last edited by Ivey; 29th January 2010 at 05:04 AM. Reason: grammar
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Old 29th January 2010, 12:52 PM   #92
Ivey is offline Ivey  United States
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Default Follow the Yellow Brick Road

Electronics, has been a major part of my adult life, since I could remember. I as a child, sat in our living room, with big brown eyes, looking at these huge glowing balls of glass, wondering how did they get all that music and people in there. And why is it that I could not see them, no matter how hard I tried.

Some of us know when to move on. Sylvania, tried with Its Hep line and ECG line to stay into transistor production. Sprague tried to stay, Texas Instrument tried to stay, but IMB saw the light before any of them, and left transistor manufacturing in 1959.

Soon they were followed by Motorola, GE, RCA, and a host of others. The ones that pioneered an industry, that no longer exist.

Soon, I will be gone as well. But we tried to leave a tradition, that others could and would follow. A tradition forged on quality and trust. Where a man actually got, what he paid for.

I have seen in these last few days, that our tradition, is not and will not stand. We tried to give the world that we grew up in; the best. But something went wrong.

It is a shame when someone drives up in a Lotus, and call it an Aston Martin. Because they are not the same. Nor do the quality come close to it.

Apples are apples; and lemons are lemons.

Now we settle for less. We settle for less effective government, less quality clothes, food, homes, hell..., everything. We allow ourselves to be fleeced, and swindled into believing that a Ford is a BMW in quality. And paying nearly the same amount of money.

A PN2222A, KSP2222A, P2N2222A, even a MPS2222A, is not a 2N2222A in quality. Not when you can buy 2,000 of them for 2 cents or less on the dollar. You can not take a Volks Wagon and claim that it is as good as a Porch.

But the Retailers and manufactures are doing just that.

I (as well as some of you) seen where a TO-92 transistor, that have sat out in the weather for years, and when you try to work with it. It falls apart in your hands.

There is a sound that a pure 2N2222A chip makes. It has a warmth, that few people know of.

I can not tell you what to do or believe. But I can ask you to look at one book if it is available to you. The Motorola Semiconductor Master Selection Guide and Catalog dated 1984. Read pages 295 to 297. It speaks of "Hi Reliability products.

Some will say, "why should I worry about a 5 cent transistor". Because we use to say the same thing about a 45-50 cent tube in the 1950's. Now people are paying small fortunes for those tubes. As well as fortunes for the newer ones, which are of less quality. And besides, we work hard for our money.

If we allow our doctrines, customs, and practices in electronics; to go the way of tubes, cars, and the rest of the things that we value in life. We will lose.

Take Care

Ivey
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Old 29th January 2010, 01:25 PM   #93
Ivey is offline Ivey  United States
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Default How we are fooled and driven like sheep

We are not fooled because we are innocent. We are fooled because of our failure to do our homework, and read, plus remember. Above all, remember.

Motorola, list the P2N2222A in its 1995 transistor guide (listed in an earlier post), as a transistor for telcom uses. It clearly states that.

They should know, right, because they made the thing.

Now..., if you type up PN2222A on google. the Wikipedia pops up. It tells you about the PN2222A and P2N2222A.

Yet now, they are selling the PN2222A as a general purpose unit. Yes, it works, so will a 2N4401 or a 2N3904.

So, we have finally come down to this.

If it works. SELL IT. Regardless..., besides who cares, who will remember.

Me! I will remember.

Take Care

Ivey

Last edited by Ivey; 29th January 2010 at 01:27 PM. Reason: grammar
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Old 29th January 2010, 02:00 PM   #94
Ivey is offline Ivey  United States
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Default 2n404

What goes around, comes around. Street physics. Great stuff. But if it makes you Money. It is even better stuff.

Discoveries, is what we humans dream about. Motorola had this great discovery by accident. Which made it an investment profit triple threat.

The world was sacked with 2N404 Ge transistors left over from the transistor boom. No one was making it any more for consumer use. The military had its supply and they were too expensive to invest in.

So Motorola decide to make a silicon replacement. It was the MPS404 and MPS404A. They were good, only too good.

They showed outstanding switching, good amplification, and a freq range that started at 4mhz. They could not measure a max freq for the transistors.

With a little more development. Motorola soon stop making the MPS404 series and produce their outstanding line of MPS-H line of RF transistors.

If you come across any MPS404 transistors. You will have a good rf and gp transistor on your hands. It is rated as 12volts for MPS404 and 25 volts for MPS404A.

You can use it to replace both Ge and Si general purpose transistors and rf transistors. But remember, they are silicon base units. But the good thing about it, if you have the MPS404A, you can replace a huge range of Ge transistors, with only one silicon type unit.

Great stuff, ha.

Information located in Motorola Semiconductor Data Library Volume 3, dated 1974. I have all nine volumes.

Take Care


Ivey

Last edited by Ivey; 29th January 2010 at 02:04 PM. Reason: grammar
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Old 29th January 2010, 06:02 PM   #95
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Hi Ivey;

when we were younger trees were taller, grass greener, flowers smellier...

There are many great parts today, better than 2n2222a, because technologies are better developed, crystals are cleaner, and designer better understand chemistry, physics and technology.

Motoshiba developed over years transistors that eat early devices on breakfast. They know well what geometries to use to deal with Kirk and Early effects, for example. How to make devices with very thin bases, but capable of higher voltages. That saturate on millivolts, have huge Ft, and almost flat curves of dependence of beta on currents.
Zetex Semiconductors made nice devices, over years.
And so on...

You know, a grass is still green, even when it grows through an asphalt...
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Old 29th January 2010, 06:20 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivey View Post
So Motorola decide to make a silicon replacement. It was the MPS404 and MPS404A. They were good, only too good.
Ivey
Sorry to inform you Ivey, Willis Adcock grew the first pure silicon in 1953 and Gordon Teal's lab at TI made the first silicon transistor in 1954 at TI.
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Old 29th January 2010, 09:19 PM   #97
Ivey is offline Ivey  United States
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Default You are right Scott they did.

But what they did not do, was to make it available for sale, or to electronic equipment makers. They got smart, just like Bell Labs, they leased their discoveries.

Texas Instrument was a small firm and the outlay of $25,000.00 to Bell Labs for leasing its germanium technology was a large sum of money, for items that no one was buying at the time; but the military.

I stated in an earlier post, that those gentlemen made the first silicon transistor Scott. I am glad to know I am not the only one who knew it.

Take Care

Ivey
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Old 29th January 2010, 09:53 PM   #98
Ivey is offline Ivey  United States
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Default You are correct too Wavebourn:

My friend, most people do not understand the difference between the annular and planar process of the chip and wafer designs.

Planar design is a great design for transistors in separate packages or one on one. But the annular process was wasted on singular transistor designs. CMOS today use the annular radiation hardening process, for getting all those tiny npn's and pnp's to work right. the V Annular process is what is moving us towards the new Nano Technology that we are hoping to obtain.

The engineers of the world are working together to find the secrets to good and reliable Nano technology.

Annular radiation hardening process, is needed to keep the chip pure and heat stable. As more and more transistors are being pumped into a much smaller space. But with the thinness of bases, shields, annular grooves, and canals. I fear that we will reach our limits.

We are reducing the voltage used to propel the carriers, yet the friction of those carriers and the demand needed to move them, increases the current demands, which increases the wattage level. So the offset is very small right now. That is why we require a mass of cooling heatsinks to keep it together.

As we go from single core to dual, to quad and beyond. We'll reach a limit as to how far we can go.

We can parallel cores to reduce current demands, but as the core loads increase, whether using parallel cores or stack layers. Burn thru's will happen to the thin films that we are using today. Reliability will become a serious issue.

Your statement that there are better transistor out there than the 2N2222A, is true. I agree with you 100%. We need to move on. Because we need to educate our people for the future. And look to tomorrow.

There is another transistor that I came across in 1999. It is the J501P made by Philips. Yet today is no longer available for open retail sales. Just through semiconductor vendors.

I bought 300 through liquidation. I paid a whole $6.50 dollars for them. They are great. A real sleeper of transistor. They are similar to SS9014C.

But a little cleaner in current noise.

I called Philips and ask about them. I was told that they use a good silicon mix for those units. But hearing is believing, they sound ok.

But then at my age, plain sound, sounds ok.


Take Care

Ivey

Last edited by Ivey; 29th January 2010 at 10:00 PM. Reason: grammar
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Old 29th January 2010, 10:10 PM   #99
Ivey is offline Ivey  United States
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Default Wavebourn:

If that PCBCAD30, does not work out well, I will re-inburst you, for your funds.

I ask my son to purchase it for me. And he said no. He stated that I had enough PCB packages. And some of them are 2,000 to 4,100 dollar packages. Those being Eagle Professional, Protel 99SE, and DXP 2004. Not to mention PCBPAD4.0.

So I did not get it. Besides, when I decided to buy it anyway, they were no longer selling it.

So I looked up this NigelWright7557 guy. He is somewhat of a con artist. There are not too many nice things being said about him and his comrad Marra. An I can not find too much on this PCBCAD30.

So what do you think

Tare Care

Ivey
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Old 29th January 2010, 11:12 PM   #100
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I don't think Ivey; I'm still waiting till PCBCAD40 arrives. After that I will let you know how happy I am with it.
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