Best electrolytic capacitors - Page 3 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Design & Build > Parts

Parts Where to get, and how to make the best bits. PCB's, caps, transformers, etc.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10th September 2009, 01:17 AM   #21
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
diyAudio Chief Moderator
 
Salas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Athens-Greece
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt von Kubik View Post
At the very feet of digital logic circuits, such as DAC chips, ASRCīs, recievers etc., there is no way around ceramics though, but they can succesfully be backed up by a nice film cap.

Just my 5 cents.
Even if good COG? You still back em up with film? Radial mini leg film ones I suppose?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2009, 01:18 AM   #22
Reality first!
diyAudio Member
 
ClaveFremen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Milan, Italy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt von Kubik View Post
The one that to me came out as the superior one is deffinately Panasonic FM.
...
The sound of the FM´s might not suit your gear, but it is IMHO what I think of the most colourless electrolytic available....
...
To me Pana FM´s are the ones for PSU decoupling in line level circuits.
Hi Kurt,

FMs are for sure great caps but they do have faults too, a bit of harshness and a not so controlled bass both in signal coupling and PS decoupling, IMHO.

Their tonal balance is quite neutral (just a bit too much highs).

Silmics are slightly warmer but no harshness and a much better controlled bass. Also reverbs are sligtly better with Silmics.

In my tests in analog PS decoupling Silmics bettered FMs, FCs, ZLs, KZs, FGs and FWs.

Silmics need some burn-in time (ca 40 hours), at first bass is overhelming...
__________________
Dario
ClaveFremen "Bailando Salsa en el Sietch"

Last edited by ClaveFremen; 10th September 2009 at 01:21 AM. Reason: a missing IMHO
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2009, 03:31 AM   #23
anatech is offline anatech  Canada
diyAudio Moderator
 
anatech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Georgetown, On
Interesting responses from all.

My own experiences agree with what I measure. The capacitors that behave nicely, low dielectric absorption and low series resistance, always behave more like what they are .... capacitors. Since I do get a more perfect capacitor performance, they also will have the least "sound' coloration. I am really looking forward to testing some of these, by listening and measuring. I love it when hearing and measuring agree!

With a simple listening test, and no other way to have a reference, I suspect that there might be too many things going on to say a particular part sounds good or bad. There is a risk that another part simply covers up the bad stuff and the more transparent part allows you to hear the bad stuff as well as the music.

A simple test jig might be in order for people interested in exploring the sounds created by different parts. For capacitors and resistors, you may want to set up a jig that allows you to temporarily install the part(s) you want to check. Allow a jumper (you can get terminals gold plated along with a matching jumper) to short out the part(s) in question. You can provide spots for more than one trial part. Those of us who can, may be able to measure distortion and also listen for a few days for any effect the trial part may have. The connectors are called "headers", you may have seen them in computer equipment. They can be bought at all major parts suppliers.

A simple project to allow real tests on components you aren't sure about. Could be a real money saver for some of you out there. Keep in mind that many rave reviews are very informally done. Try not to have any expectations (yeah, it's difficult some times).

Another point. Watch that you don't apply what musicians like to what you are doing. Two utterly and completely different applications, and they do not normally go for clean (= low distortion). A great example of this are carbon composition resistors mentioned earlier. They do change their resistance as the voltage across them changes. Great for a guitar amp, not so great for a listening amp. These are also preferred in high frequency circuits (like AM and FM tuners, or mosfet gate damping resistors). Each part design does have an application they are designed for. Some are just simply inexpensive.

So, dive in and experiment! Even a spare tape loop may tell you all you really need to know.

-Chris
__________________
"Just because you can, doesn't mean you should" Đ my Wife
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2009, 04:00 AM   #24
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
diyAudio Chief Moderator
 
Salas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Athens-Greece
I only know for sure what is the sound of a component when I design it out, not in. Its a forest, the more the trees, the easier I get lost.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2009, 06:00 AM   #25
diyAudio Member
 
Kurt von Kubik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Viby, Denmark
Send a message via MSN to Kurt von Kubik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salas View Post
Even if good COG? You still back em up with film? Radial mini leg film ones I suppose?
If posible, Yes! But of couse this is for digital supplies, ceramics should not be used any other place like that.
And I normally use Wima radial mini caps
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2009, 06:15 AM   #26
diyAudio Member
 
Kurt von Kubik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Viby, Denmark
Send a message via MSN to Kurt von Kubik
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaveFremen View Post
Hi Kurt,

FMs are for sure great caps but they do have faults too, a bit of harshness and a not so controlled bass both in signal coupling and PS decoupling, IMHO.

Their tonal balance is quite neutral (just a bit too much highs).

Silmics are slightly warmer but no harshness and a much better controlled bass. Also reverbs are sligtly better with Silmics.

In my tests in analog PS decoupling Silmics bettered FMs, FCs, ZLs, KZs, FGs and FWs.

Silmics need some burn-in time (ca 40 hours), at first bass is overhelming...
I don´t doubt any of your experiences, but as always it depends on what they are used for.
The Silmic cap is mechanically damped, so that vibrations won´t harm the sound so musch, they cary this even longer in their Silmic II and Cerafine types. The FM is from an electrical point of view superior to the Elna´s, taht means you´ll have to decide what you need.
In designs based upon op-amps, the need for clean and noiseless power is not very important, as most op-amps have PSRR above 100 dB. In discrete design things can be quite different, since the amplifier, or what ever are at stake, does not have PSRR at that level. Normally PSRR in discrete design is very much lower, and the need for a strong noiseless PSU with good electrical data is very outspoken.
My friend and I´s latest project is this DAC DAC project completed which now finally is coming to an end. During that we tested endless combinations of caps, the conclusion was, as long we are talking about the analog stage, that all electrolytics are bad, just some are worse than others in their own way.
So we designed them out of the analog stage, leaving only a few FM smoothing caps prior to 2 regulation stages consisting of 8 regulators..
On the digital part the FM´s were superior to anything we tried, but that could have been read from the datasheet actually.
Here they were bypassed by a film cap, and the logic circuits in the Reciever, ASRC and DAC also needed ceramics at their feet.

Last edited by Kurt von Kubik; 10th September 2009 at 06:23 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2009, 10:49 AM   #27
Luke is offline Luke  New Zealand
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Wellington NZ
Send a message via AIM to Luke
anyone try the panasonic AM series?

http://nz.farnell.com/panasonic/eca1...35v/dp/8767327

This is NZ dollars so they are inexpensive, but little reference on the www on these.

BTW I like Elna Silmic II and are my preferred cap.

Last edited by Luke; 10th September 2009 at 10:54 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2009, 04:47 PM   #28
Cave Man
diyAudio Member
 
Spooky Electric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tornesch
I have not given the Elnas a try by now, but I certainly will. Hemp? Sounds interesting...

I changed all the electrolytics in my DAC (RME ADI-2) to Nichicon KZ (the 3300 uF is Nichicon FG). After a short period of disappointment (burn-in related) the new caps lifted the DAC to a higher level! The sound became more natural and even clearer than before - without any loss of richness. Coincidentally the DAC became more merciless with poor recordings (slave audio effect).

This DAC generally seems to be very receptive to modding (PSU, SRPP-Outputs and even a better enclosure). It is also rather cheap.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2009, 10:18 PM   #29
Xoc1 is offline Xoc1  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Xoc1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Devon UK
Elna Caps have always been my favorites. Silmics, and before them the RSH series, will help lift a good consumer grade analog circuit in to the 'something special' category.
When using a electolytic for signal decoupling, I always concider if it can be safely replaced with a piece of wire! I tend to use back to back capacitors where there is no appreciable DC offset to deal with, and bi-pass with a 0.1 wima MKT.
I do use the panasonic FM series sometimes, as they are readily available in a larger range of sizes, so are easier to fit in some circuits were space is a problem.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2009, 11:21 PM   #30
Tea-Bag is offline Tea-Bag  United States
not politcally affiliated
diyAudio Member
 
Tea-Bag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kennebunk
Blog Entries: 7
Default silimics

Here is a shot of the Bipolar Silmics. Made in Thailand.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg audiostuff 012.jpg (280.1 KB, 3754 views)
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
reforming electrolytic capacitors AndrewT Parts 27 13th March 2013 09:17 AM
Lots of NOS Electrolytic Capacitors! ungie Swap Meet 27 29th February 2012 02:38 AM
4 pole electrolytic capacitors AGGEMAM Pass Labs 7 22nd February 2010 01:58 PM
Electrolytic capacitors akis Parts 13 16th August 2009 05:13 PM
Electrolytic vs polyprop capacitors Puggie Tubes / Valves 2 15th September 2005 12:32 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:59 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright Đ1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2