Natural dielectrics (in caps and wire) like silk, paper and cotton sound more natural - Page 3

BudP · 5th September 2009, 02:55 AM

Which model of snake?

Bud

rdf · 5th September 2009, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BudP

Teflon .... always seems noisy.

As transformer winding insulation? It's always fun comparing impressions to see if patterns can be teased out. The reason I ask is, at least in the form of denuded Russian Teflon caps, mine is somewhat the opposite. In coupling positions they sound (from memory) a bit dark and very resolving, to a point. Instead of noisy at very low levels the caps almost act like a gate. The aural impression is reverb and ambience fade to a point and then just 'turn off'.

Quote:

"Which model of snake?

So many euphemisms, so little desire to antagonize the moderators. =D

BudP · 5th September 2009, 05:18 AM

No, not as transformer insulation. Teflon film is not particularly robust. With a metalizer added or wound with an evenly distributed copper foil it is apparently fine. Also good for fine wire hand wound toroids. Not the situation we find with coil wires and no reason to use it, with Nomex paper around.

That sudden drop off is typical of a lot of the film plastics when used in signal transformers. I am not willing to say I know why either, since their dielectric constants are all over the place. Mylar is another one that looses low level information as is Kapton. I have never had sheet nylon to work with, just the pulped threads smashed into paper, which does not loose this info, so I cannot speak about it.

I know many many snakes I think should be rendered for their oil....

Bud

planet10 · 5th September 2009, 05:26 AM

Bas,

You've certainly started a poll that should get some "passionate" discussion going. I do know that caps sound different, but haven't had a whole lot of opportunity to compare exotica so decline to voice an opinion.

dave

Geek · 5th September 2009, 07:16 PM

Tell you all what, if *I* carry it, I'll pay some magazine guru to say it's the best and anyone who doesn't use it is a bolshevik weenie

I'm leaning toward "Paper in Cat Pee" capacitors, since it's green for the environment and there's a never ending supply.

Oh, I chose "Dumb Poll"

BudP · 5th September 2009, 07:21 PM

Geek,

How bout snake skin and that wee? We can use the snake oil to rub on the air molecules to make them more coherent. Probably won't be able to process it fast enough to keep up with the supply side economics involved though....and, we can leave the trees to their carbon sequestration activities, so green weeners all round.

Bud

Geek · 5th September 2009, 07:27 PM

Hi Bud,

Oh good! A "Special Edition" version of the c4t-P caps

Mercedes payments have to be made

Cheers!

BudP · 5th September 2009, 07:46 PM

Passionate discussion indeed!!!

Bud

Irakli · 6th September 2009, 03:59 AM

Quote:

I'm leaning toward "Paper in Cat Pee" capacitors

Cat Pee is a strong electrolyte, so these caps will be a good discussion material for a completely new thread.

ikoflexer · 6th September 2009, 05:37 AM

Like many of us tweakers I once set on making my own capacitors. For lack of high quality cat fluid I tried liquid paper. It contains large amounts of an inferior substance, titanium dioxide, which sports a humble dielectric constant of only 100. Having a bunch of old and ugly electrolytic caps, I figured I could cut them out and use their aluminum foils. Which I then proceeded to paint with Papermate liquid paper, allowed to dry, rolled nicely together, and measured to roughly .33uF. Had I had cat pee, I can only dream of the caps I could have enjoyed in my phono stage.

Disclaimer: no cats or snakes were harmed in any of my experiments.

View Poll Results: Natural dielectrics like silk,paper or cotton sound more natural than say polyprop
YES!	16	13.01%
NO!	26	21.14%
This is a stupid poll	81	65.85%
Voters: 123. You may not vote on this poll

5th September 2009, 05:26 AM	#24
planet10 frugal-phile(tm) diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III Blog Entries: 4	Bas, You've certainly started a poll that should get some "passionate" discussion going. I do know that caps sound different, but haven't had a whole lot of opportunity to compare exotica so decline to voice an opinion. dave __________________ community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi p10-hifi forum here at diyA

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5th September 2009, 02:55 AM	#21
BudP diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: upper left crust, united snakes	Which model of snake? Bud

5th September 2009, 05:18 AM	#23
BudP diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: upper left crust, united snakes	No, not as transformer insulation. Teflon film is not particularly robust. With a metalizer added or wound with an evenly distributed copper foil it is apparently fine. Also good for fine wire hand wound toroids. Not the situation we find with coil wires and no reason to use it, with Nomex paper around. That sudden drop off is typical of a lot of the film plastics when used in signal transformers. I am not willing to say I know why either, since their dielectric constants are all over the place. Mylar is another one that looses low level information as is Kapton. I have never had sheet nylon to work with, just the pulped threads smashed into paper, which does not loose this info, so I cannot speak about it. I know many many snakes I think should be rendered for their oil.... Bud

5th September 2009, 07:16 PM	#25
Geek diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2004	Tell you all what, if I carry it, I'll pay some magazine guru to say it's the best and anyone who doesn't use it is a bolshevik weenie I'm leaning toward "Paper in Cat Pee" capacitors, since it's green for the environment and there's a never ending supply. Oh, I chose "Dumb Poll"

5th September 2009, 07:21 PM	#26
BudP diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: upper left crust, united snakes	Geek, How bout snake skin and that wee? We can use the snake oil to rub on the air molecules to make them more coherent. Probably won't be able to process it fast enough to keep up with the supply side economics involved though....and, we can leave the trees to their carbon sequestration activities, so green weeners all round. Bud

5th September 2009, 07:27 PM	#27
Geek diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2004	Hi Bud, Oh good! A "Special Edition" version of the c4t-P caps Mercedes payments have to be made Cheers!

5th September 2009, 07:46 PM	#28
BudP diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: upper left crust, united snakes	Passionate discussion indeed!!! Bud

6th September 2009, 05:37 AM	#30
ikoflexer diyAudio Moderator Join Date: May 2008 Location: Toronto	Like many of us tweakers I once set on making my own capacitors. For lack of high quality cat fluid I tried liquid paper. It contains large amounts of an inferior substance, titanium dioxide, which sports a humble dielectric constant of only 100. Having a bunch of old and ugly electrolytic caps, I figured I could cut them out and use their aluminum foils. Which I then proceeded to paint with Papermate liquid paper, allowed to dry, rolled nicely together, and measured to roughly .33uF. Had I had cat pee, I can only dream of the caps I could have enjoyed in my phono stage. Disclaimer: no cats or snakes were harmed in any of my experiments.

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