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Old 10th March 2008, 08:42 AM   #1
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Default Simulation Models for OPA827 and TINA-TI

Hello!

I'm looking for the simulation model of the OPA827 to work with TINA-TI (free version). It's not available on the TI web site and the TINA free version do not permit to add models.

I'm also looking for the LM4562 models too.

Stephane
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Old 11th March 2008, 05:47 AM   #2
BrianL is offline BrianL  United States
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The OPA827 doesn't appear to available yet. I would guess that the model will be available when the part is. Keep an eye on the TI web site.

National has the LM4562 family on their web site. Apparently the model works for the whole family of very similar parts. It appears that you can't create new macro models in TINA-TI; at least I haven't been able to get it to do so. Apparently you can't either.

(bonus points: can someone explain to me the difference between LM4562 and LME49720 other than they seemed to have changed numbering schemes for 'performance audio' products mid-stream?)
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Old 11th March 2008, 06:53 AM   #3
gootee is offline gootee  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrianL
The OPA827 doesn't appear to available yet. I would guess that the model will be available when the part is. Keep an eye on the TI web site.

National has the LM4562 family on their web site. Apparently the model works for the whole family of very similar parts. It appears that you can't create new macro models in TINA-TI; at least I haven't been able to get it to do so. Apparently you can't either.

(bonus points: can someone explain to me the difference between LM4562 and LME49720 other than they seemed to have changed numbering schemes for 'performance audio' products mid-stream?)
I think I read that they are exactly the same. They assigned a new number to fit it into the new numbering scheme, but also kept the old number because it was already so well-known.
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Old 11th March 2008, 07:22 AM   #4
gootee is offline gootee  United States
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Have either of you tried LTspice (aka switchercadIII), which is free from linear.com ? It's truly great, and also has no limitations imposed. And the LT-SPICE discussion group at yahoogroups.com is a huge bonus; top-notch.

I have convenient direct links to both, plus links to sites with tens of thousands of downloadable spice models, at http://www.fullnet.com/~tomg/gooteesp.htm .
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Old 11th March 2008, 07:40 AM   #5
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I started using LTSpice before TINA but this last one is so ergonomic and easy to use...

.
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Old 12th March 2008, 04:48 AM   #6
BrianL is offline BrianL  United States
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Tom,

I am only just getting into 'modern' SPICE simulators and have been using TINA-TI at home as a learning tool. I have not used the LT SPICE product but have several coworkers who do. I know that one of them has switched to TINA-TI since the new version came out that allows you to use multiple components.

So far I have been pretty impressed with TINA. It is quite intuitive and has great 'help'. I have found a few annoyances. For example, what if I want to run two Monte Carlo simulations of a circuit, one with 10% tolerance capacitors and one with 1% tolerance? To date, I have found no way to do a mass change of this nature -- you need to edit one component at a time. I can't say that anyone does it better, but it sure would be nice to at least be able to bring up a BOM, make edits to these parameters and have it reverse-annotate the 'components' on the schematic.
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Old 12th March 2008, 05:22 AM   #7
gootee is offline gootee  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrianL
Tom,

I am only just getting into 'modern' SPICE simulators and have been using TINA-TI at home as a learning tool. I have not used the LT SPICE product but have several coworkers who do. I know that one of them has switched to TINA-TI since the new version came out that allows you to use multiple components.

So far I have been pretty impressed with TINA. It is quite intuitive and has great 'help'. I have found a few annoyances. For example, what if I want to run two Monte Carlo simulations of a circuit, one with 10% tolerance capacitors and one with 1% tolerance? To date, I have found no way to do a mass change of this nature -- you need to edit one component at a time. I can't say that anyone does it better, but it sure would be nice to at least be able to bring up a BOM, make edits to these parameters and have it reverse-annotate the 'components' on the schematic.
I guess I'll have to take a look at TINA. I think I might even already have it downloaded, but not installed. I think you should *definitely* try LTspice. It's becoming quite a standard, and is arguably the best spice simulator available, in most ways that count.

I haven't actually even done a Monte Carlo simulation with LTspice, yet. But (and this might not be helpful at all, for your current situation), as far as changing many component values goes, I often use .param statements to set parameters at runtime (i.e. at startup) that are used in expressions that set component values.

(Sorry if you know all of this already: )

Parameters are sort of like 'variables'. But they can only be set at the start of a run. They can be calculated automatically, too, from other parameters. So I could set a capacitor's value to {factor*cinit} (note that the curly braces must be included), then I could have .param statements like .param cinit=100p and .param factor={freq*2*Pi*R} and also define Pi and R with other .param statements, etc. (not that that particular example would make sense; It's only a syntax example.)

I don't know if that sort of thing would help with your tolerance setting or not.

I believe that there are some good examples of automated Monte Carlo techniques, in the Files section of the LT-SPICE discussion group, at yahoogroups.com (and maybe also in the Examples included with the software). And there are, no doubt, some very good discussions about Monte Carlo techniques, in the message archive, there. (And, of course, for LTspice, you could always ask a new question, if a search couldn't find the answer. The experts there are fantastic.)

ALSO, you can use .step statements to invoke multiple subsequent simulation runs, like with .step param cinit 10p 100p 5p to step cinit from 10pF to 100pF in 5pF increments, or, .step param cinit list 10p 12p 15p 18p 22p, to use a list of values instead of increments.

The curly braces with run-time calcs inside them are fairly-generally applicable, too, and can be used for startup calculation of component values, and in param and step (and other) spice directives, and for voltage and current source settings, and even for .tran and .ac analysis setting, such as simulation time length and maximum timestep, and probably in a bunch of other ways that I'm forgetting, since it's past my bedtime.

Sorry if none of that pertains to your Monte Carlo problem.
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Old 12th March 2008, 07:45 AM   #8
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As you talk of simulators, you also have Micro-Cap. Seems very very powerfull but myself I was not able to use it. Too complex.

Thanks for the LM4562 models.

If someone have TINA full version, I'm also looking for:

> LT3080
> LT1963-3.3
> LT1761
> LT1763

And as well, still looking for OPA827...

I've to write to TI if they have something not online.

Stef...
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Old 13th March 2008, 04:56 AM   #9
gootee is offline gootee  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by stef1777
As you talk of simulators, you also have Micro-Cap. Seems very very powerfull but myself I was not able to use it. Too complex.

Thanks for the LM4562 models.

If someone have TINA full version, I'm also looking for:

> LT3080
> LT1963-3.3
> LT1761
> LT1763

And as well, still looking for OPA827...

I've to write to TI if they have something not online.

Stef...
Stef,

For the LT1963-3.3, LT1761, and LT1763 models, there are links at the URL below (which has links to over 20,000 spice models!):

http://homepages.which.net/~paul.hil...odelIndex.html

The link above is included on my spice-modeling webpage, which is at:

http://www.fullnet.com/~tomg/gooteesp.htm

There is another link, there, to a very large collection of directly-downloadable models, that you might also want to check.
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