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Old 3rd January 2008, 11:46 AM   #1
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does anyone know of any reason why i cannot change some old cement .22 5 watt resistors to some shiney new kiwame 5 watt ones for the sme value of course?

thanks

chris
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Old 3rd January 2008, 12:17 PM   #2
jaycee is offline jaycee  United Kingdom
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should be fine as long as they fit the same spacing, but why?
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Old 3rd January 2008, 12:59 PM   #3
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There should be no problems
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Old 3rd January 2008, 01:19 PM   #4
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by jaycee
should be fine as long as they fit the same spacing, but why?
Because it's entertaining to buy brand-name fashion parts, put them in circuit positions where they can't make any difference, then pretend that they do.

As part of a book deal, I received some old copies of a British magazine called "Hi-Fi World Supplement," full of ads for such components and breathless text describing how you can use them to achieve massive imaginary improvements in poorly conceived and executed designs.
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Old 3rd January 2008, 03:15 PM   #5
DRC is offline DRC  United Kingdom
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Are the cement ones inductive / wirewound ?

It is possible the a non-inductive type could cause issues IF the original circuitry depends on this small inductance ... Is this an emitter resistor ??

Does this company actually make 0.22 in 5W ?

/dave
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Old 4th January 2008, 04:03 AM   #6
jlsem is offline jlsem  United States
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If the more expensive resistor helps lower the noise floor of the device, then by all means use it. I'm all for eliminating noise. As a matter of fact, in my own experience listening to a really good system, components that lowered the noise floor, whether they were tubes, interconnects, umbilical cords, etc., always had a positive impact on the music.

I have in my possession many resistors made by companies such as Shallcross and Daven that somebody obviously spent a lot of time designing and manufacturing for some reason, whether for noise reduction, reliability, or bandwidth. Why not avoid trouble in the future and use them?

Back when he was still alive and still doing such things, John Camille once told me the quietest resistors he'd tested were Corning metal films. I still believe that there is something to be said for picking components that produce the least amount of noise.

John
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Old 5th January 2008, 12:43 AM   #7
anatech is offline anatech  Canada
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Hi Chris,
Quote:
does anyone know of any reason why i cannot change some old cement .22 5 watt resistors to some shiney new kiwame 5 watt ones for the sme value of course?
The cement type are wire wound. They can handle large surges of current. They are also very quiet (being wire wound and all).

Personally, I would leave them be. In cases where the inductance is a problem, you can use the non-inductive film types that Nobel and others make. Those are the flat white resistors.

In this position you will not hear any difference unless the replacements cause a problem (or the originals are a problem). That is the complete truth.

-Chris
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Old 5th January 2008, 01:10 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by anatech
In this position you will not hear any difference unless the replacements cause a problem (or the originals are a problem). That is the complete truth.
Maybe I did miss something, so I re-read the thread again.

But I couldn't find what exactly is the position of those resistors and what equipment we are talking about here, that we will not hear any difference and that this is complete truth?
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Old 5th January 2008, 02:51 AM   #9
anatech is offline anatech  Canada
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Hi Peter,
Quote:
But I couldn't find what exactly is the position of those resistors and what equipment we are talking about here
True. However, the only place you would normally ever see a ceramic 0.22 ohm resistor is in series with the transistor emitters in a non-switching amplifier. The emitter resistors. Would you agree with that?

These resistors would be exposed to possible high surge currents at times. They are also in an area were there is no more gain. They would also normally be enclosed in the feedback loop of a standard amplifier.

Those would be my assumptions. Did you have a different take on things?

Given that these parts are a losser element at best, and enclosed in the feedback loop, they will not have as much of an effect on sound quality compared to a part in the input stage with all the gain occurring after their location. I must admit that I've never seen any ceramic resistors used in an input stage (save a circuit built by an acquaintance that shorted and burned the first time it was powered up in class).

Hey Shin!,
Spoken like a true janitor! That's what I've been saying all along as well (for those who want to know).

-Chris
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Old 5th January 2008, 03:07 AM   #10
SY is offline SY  United States
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jlsem, wirewounds are as quiet as you can get- no excess noise, just Johnson noise. I seriously doubt that 0R22 cement are being used in a low-noise position anyway; the overwhelming probability is that they are emitter resistors in an output stage.
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