Hi!
Has anyone used BC Components KP460-464 1% precision polypropylene caps?
My application would be vinyl amp.
http://www.elfa.se/pdf/65/06510002.pdf
Has anyone used BC Components KP460-464 1% precision polypropylene caps?
My application would be vinyl amp.
http://www.elfa.se/pdf/65/06510002.pdf
Attachments
I have not yet.peranders said:
But if I will build my active bi- or triamp system,
those Caps I will use in the active filters.
1% metalfilm resistors and 1% polypropylene caps.
I think it is hard to find such good polypropylene
for that price.
Better than big passive inductors and capacitors
spoiling the DC-output in Power amp.
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What is the big fuzz with DC-output
if you after that put capacitors before the voicecoil.
That I have never understood.
And what is the big fear of having a big output cap,
if you still will put a cap in the crossover?
And dc-offset fuzz???? You tell me....
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/logical halo - polypropylene-lover - and when He uses DC-coupled output
it is NOT a cap in the way
and certainly no inductor either
Re: Re: Precision polypropylene 1% caps - any good?
My bass speaker hasn't got any caps...(where the power goes)
OK, you are joking, right? And while we are at it I think AD161/162 is the transistors ever made, such delicate sound the can produce..
Halo, you must be joking?? You really can't see any difference between a DC coupled amp and a AC one?halojoy said:
What is the big fuzz with DC-output
if you after that put capacitors before the voicecoil.
That I have never understood.
My bass speaker hasn't got any caps...(where the power goes)
OK, you are joking, right? And while we are at it I think AD161/162 is the transistors ever made, such delicate sound the can produce..
Hi,
If you have ever made a direct comparison with an otherwise similar amplifier, the bass will (nearly?) always seem firmer with a DC coupled amp when compared with a capacitor coupled one.
I believe that phase shifts at the bottom end have a lot to with this effect.
Apart from the fact that even the very best (inevitably) low value film caps are not sonically benign, most capacitor-coupled amps need such a large output cap, that it usually needs to be an electrolytic, which are ruinous to the sound, in my experience, even the excellent BGs which I would never use in a signal path like this.
As peranders has said, even though in tweeter and midrange X'overs you will generally find a series coupling cap (which because of the smaller size could be a film cap, anyway), I have never yet seen a capacitor *in series* with a woofer (they are used in shunt across them, though) so there is nothing odd about the arrangement suggested at all.
Regards,
If you have ever made a direct comparison with an otherwise similar amplifier, the bass will (nearly?) always seem firmer with a DC coupled amp when compared with a capacitor coupled one.
I believe that phase shifts at the bottom end have a lot to with this effect.
Apart from the fact that even the very best (inevitably) low value film caps are not sonically benign, most capacitor-coupled amps need such a large output cap, that it usually needs to be an electrolytic, which are ruinous to the sound, in my experience, even the excellent BGs which I would never use in a signal path like this.
As peranders has said, even though in tweeter and midrange X'overs you will generally find a series coupling cap (which because of the smaller size could be a film cap, anyway), I have never yet seen a capacitor *in series* with a woofer (they are used in shunt across them, though) so there is nothing odd about the arrangement suggested at all.
Regards,
Bobken said:, I have never yet seen a capacitor *in series* with a woofer (they are used in shunt across them, though) so there is nothing odd about the arrangement suggested at all.
Regards,
Well, then you've never seen my crossover! I have a trap circuit in series with the woofer to attenuate a peak in the response at around 800Hz. In addition to an inductor and resistor, there is a 102uF cap
all in parallel, and then in series with the woofer. Believe me that you need a good film cap for that, and it is expensive.RonS
Re: Re: Precision polypropylene 1% caps - any good?
Seriously, using iron wires, we talk 5-10 mm's what do they achiev?
These caps has iron wires and tin-lead foil.
Have anybody any idea why they not use copper wires? I must be some technical reason because these caps aren't audiophilic at all.
fmak said:
Seriously, using iron wires, we talk 5-10 mm's what do they achiev?
These caps has iron wires and tin-lead foil.
Have anybody any idea why they not use copper wires? I must be some technical reason because these caps aren't audiophilic at all.
There's always one!
Hi,
I mean no offence, but never mind about "not seeing your Xover", with anyone using a "trap circuit", as you put it, in series with any bass driver, I am extremely glad I haven't *heard* your speakers, Ron!
Personally, I prefer to use drivers which don't require any such correction, especially in the bass regions, because I like to hear a bit of 'slam' at the bottom end which will be killed by any such series filter.
I even place any (more normal!) chokes in the 'return' path so that the 'positive wave front' cannot be 'softened' before it hits the voice-coils!
I am well aware of just how expensive film caps are, by the way, but I can assure you that there are no "good" film caps anywhere near the size you mention here, even if it were, perhaps, three used in parallell to make up this value!
If here by "good" you mean polypropylenes, which are about the best types normally available in any worthwhile size, I don't consider those (of anyone's manufacture) to be good enough to use in series with any of my drivers.
Still, each to his own, as they say.
Regards,
transducer said:
Well, then you've never seen my crossover! I have a trap circuit in series with the woofer to attenuate a peak in the response at around 800Hz. In addition to an inductor and resistor, there is a 102uF cap
RonS
Hi,
I mean no offence, but never mind about "not seeing your Xover", with anyone using a "trap circuit", as you put it, in series with any bass driver, I am extremely glad I haven't *heard* your speakers, Ron!
Personally, I prefer to use drivers which don't require any such correction, especially in the bass regions, because I like to hear a bit of 'slam' at the bottom end which will be killed by any such series filter.
I even place any (more normal!) chokes in the 'return' path so that the 'positive wave front' cannot be 'softened' before it hits the voice-coils!
I am well aware of just how expensive film caps are, by the way, but I can assure you that there are no "good" film caps anywhere near the size you mention here, even if it were, perhaps, three used in parallell to make up this value!
If here by "good" you mean polypropylenes, which are about the best types normally available in any worthwhile size, I don't consider those (of anyone's manufacture) to be good enough to use in series with any of my drivers.
Still, each to his own, as they say.
Regards,
Hi Bobken,
actually some of the best drivers (especially those with very stiff diaphragms) which make excellent woofers require some kind of equalization circuits (for instance a notch-filter or the like) to get rid off ringing at higher frequencies or other frequency deviations.
Usually those circuits are used at higher frequencies and more often than not do not have any signifcant influence on "slam" at the bottom.
To me it`s not clear how You come to the conclusion that those kind of correction filters are basicly bad.
This is a miracle to me. How comes that an inductor in the "return" path can "soften". The inductor is in series with the driver anyway, it doesn`t matter if You put it "before" or "after" the driver.
peranders,
sorry that I can`t contribute something useful about Your initial question about those BC-caps. My experience is that KP-type caps are among of the best of small value caps and maybe only exceeded by precision Styroflex-types which seem to best for use in phono RIAA equalization circuits (I just assume You want to use them for this) .
Re: There's always one!
Bobken,
You have clearly demonstrated your lack of understanding of speaker design, and especially crossover design. I assure you that the driver which I am using (Vifa PL14) is extremely flat in the 800Hz region. The bump in the response is due to the cabinet baffle geometry.
Where do you get your information that a series trap will kill any "slam"? Not that I want to get into a discussion about what creates slam.
As to your dismissal of polypropylene caps, what exactly do you use? Surely you're not using Teflon caps at any decent size to work in series with a tweeter for instance. I'm using Solen 51uF x2, they are adequate for the job.
Ron
Bobken said:
Hi,
I mean no offence, but never mind about "not seeing your Xover", with anyone using a "trap circuit", as you put it, in series with any bass driver, I am extremely glad I haven't *heard* your speakers, Ron!
Personally, I prefer to use drivers which don't require any such correction, especially in the bass regions, because I like to hear a bit of 'slam' at the bottom end which will be killed by any such series filter.
I even place any (more normal!) chokes in the 'return' path so that the 'positive wave front' cannot be 'softened' before it hits the voice-coils!
I am well aware of just how expensive film caps are, by the way, but I can assure you that there are no "good" film caps anywhere near the size you mention here, even if it were, perhaps, three used in parallell to make up this value!
If here by "good" you mean polypropylenes, which are about the best types normally available in any worthwhile size, I don't consider those (of anyone's manufacture) to be good enough to use in series with any of my drivers.
Still, each to his own, as they say.
Regards,
Bobken,
You have clearly demonstrated your lack of understanding of speaker design, and especially crossover design. I assure you that the driver which I am using (Vifa PL14) is extremely flat in the 800Hz region. The bump in the response is due to the cabinet baffle geometry.
Where do you get your information that a series trap will kill any "slam"? Not that I want to get into a discussion about what creates slam.
As to your dismissal of polypropylene caps, what exactly do you use? Surely you're not using Teflon caps at any decent size to work in series with a tweeter for instance. I'm using Solen 51uF x2, they are adequate for the job.
Ron
peranders said:
I'm not sure, I didn't own a scope at the time. What was happening was that only one channel would work. If I touched the ground of the input RCA jack, both channels worked. I had originally had the small caps in place and the unit worked fine. Upon removing them it started to cut out on me.
The design is a balanced input using a BB INA103 opamp, although I use RCA jacks for input, both the hot AND ground are isolated from the chassis. The circuit is basically stolen from the BB app notes, with a passive RIAA network from the Analog Devices applications guide, and then an OPA604 output (will soon replace with OPA627.
Cheers,
RonS
Re: Re: Re: Precision polypropylene 1% caps - any good?
If you use Silver Solder it will neutralize
the bad sound from the Iron
So the sound will be suitable for all types of Golden Ears.
Even those hearing differencies between some mm iron and copper.
The best solution is
of course to paint this cap black and LABEL it (in golden color)
BAPP[tm] - Black Audio Precision Poly
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Some other of us think that this would be way too much trouble
for nothing gained.
But whatever gets an audioPhile sleep better at night
can't be bad .......
/halo - thinks peranders should stop worrying about nothing
Do not worry,peranders said:
If you use Silver Solder it will neutralize
the bad sound from the Iron
So the sound will be suitable for all types of Golden Ears.
Even those hearing differencies between some mm iron and copper.
The best solution is
of course to paint this cap black and LABEL it (in golden color)
BAPP[tm] - Black Audio Precision Poly
-------------------------------------------------
Some other of us think that this would be way too much trouble
for nothing gained.
But whatever gets an audioPhile sleep better at night
can't be bad .......
/halo - thinks peranders should stop worrying about nothing
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