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Old 14th September 2007, 12:45 AM   #21
Magura is offline Magura  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally posted by SY


That's the claim.

That should be fairly easy to proove in case such change in structure should happen.


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Old 14th September 2007, 12:53 AM   #22
OzMikeH is offline OzMikeH  Australia
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Cryogenic treatment of highly stressed racing gearbox components and driveshafts has been relatively common for a few years.
Rapid chilling followed by extremely slow warming as I recall.
It has a surface hardening effect.

It's a real effect. Any benefit to audio is dubious.

http://www.mtce.com.au/coldinfo.htm

It does make permanent changes to the metal's structure in the right conditions.

While cold you can shatter a spanner by throwing it at the floor.
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Old 14th September 2007, 01:17 AM   #23
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I can understand how cryo treatment extends the cooling phase of a heat treated steel and has a structural and practical effect, but a lot of wild claims have been made for cryo treatment of all sorts of stuff where it shouldn't matter a bit. The purest copper in the world will still oxidize like... well, copper. It does help to highly polish metals to slow the process. I know they make high power laser mirrors by diamond turning copper to an extreme finish, but I don't know if they have to overcoat them to prevent oxidation. That's the ticket- diamond turned RCA plugs. IMO if you want to accomplish something, ditch the stupid RCA plugs and go to a real connector like a BNC, N-type, or even the old hermaphrodite General Radio connectors. Finally, no more sex problems! (no, not many people will have a clue what I'm talking about)
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Old 14th September 2007, 01:32 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Conrad Hoffman
BTW, try to buy oxygen bearing copper!
Actually that's what you're buying if you're buying regular ETP copper (CDA alloy 110) which is what the vast majority of copper wire is made from. ETP copper is produced in an atmosphere where the oxygen level is precisely controlled. The intentional addition of oxygen is used to scavenge impurities and take them out of solution which results in copper with slightly higher conductivity than otherwise.

Oxygen free copper (CDA alloy 101) is produced in an oxygen free environment. The reason for this is that if you heat oxygenated copper in a reducing atmosphere like hydrogen, it will become brittle (I assume the hydrogen combines with the oxygen forming steam).

So anyway, when you buy regular old ETP copper, you're buying "oxygen bearing copper."

se
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Old 14th September 2007, 01:37 AM   #25
OzMikeH is offline OzMikeH  Australia
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I fully agree with you Conrad, are you a radio comms technician?
BNCs are dirt cheap and also impedance contigious (not that it matters with audio) RCA's are an extremely flawed design to begin with.

Not much beats a properly crimped N or BNC.
75 ohm coax makes incredibly good interconnects. I've written about that elsewhere.
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Old 14th September 2007, 01:51 AM   #26
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Hmmm... so audiophiles want the less conductive copper but then don't think it's good enough, so they buy silver. My head hurts. Not a radio guy, but I grew up with the stuff 'cause my dad's a ham, and I've built quite a few RF circuits. Actually, I'm just a grumpy OF with a bent towards measurements and scientific instrument design.
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Old 14th September 2007, 02:03 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Conrad Hoffman
Hmmm... so audiophiles want the less conductive copper but then don't think it's good enough, so they buy silver. My head hurts.
You think it hurts now?

They also worry about skin effect. But silver, due to its slightly higher conductivity actually has worse skinning than copper.

se
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Old 14th September 2007, 02:03 AM   #28
hags is offline hags  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by OzMikeH
I fully agree with you Conrad, are you a radio comms technician?
BNCs are dirt cheap and also impedance contigious (not that it matters with audio) RCA's are an extremely flawed design to begin with.

Not much beats a properly crimped N or BNC.
75 ohm coax makes incredibly good interconnects. I've written about that elsewhere.

I've heard the same. Doesn't Naim use BNCs or something similiar?
Has anyone wired their system(s) with N or BNC connectors?
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Old 14th September 2007, 02:05 AM   #29
hags is offline hags  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Eddy


You think it hurts now?

They also worry about skin effect. But silver, due to its slightly higher conductivity actually has worse skinning than copper.

se
Skin effect, isn't that at high frequency? Above the audio range?
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Old 14th September 2007, 02:11 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by hags
Skin effect, isn't that at high frequency? Above the audio range?
Shhhhhhh...

Not so loud. They'll hear you.

se
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