Recommendations on removing electrolytics from power supply

luvdunhill · 7th August 2007, 09:01 PM

Hi all! I'm looking to build this amplifier and am looking to see if it's possible (or advisable) to remove electrolytic caps from the power supply. Or maybe it's best to do a hybrid. For example, I was thinking of using one Mundorf M-Lytic HV 200+200uF 500 VDC after the diode bridge and then one 47uF PP from here after the IRF device. What do you think?

Here's a link to the project

Also, I'd be interested in recommendations for the 0.1uF, 1000V bias capacitors... I was condidering the SCR Teflon Tin Foil Cap that are available on Ebay here

This is my first time working with such large working voltages for caps, so I'm not really sure what to do here...

Thanks!

luvdunhill · 8th August 2007, 09:19 PM

where are all the part geeks?

soongsc · 9th August 2007, 02:51 AM

I do beleive that electrolytics are necessary. These seem to work best with biased voltages. I once met a person tha t did take them out and lost bass on his amps and could not figure out why.

luvdunhill · 9th August 2007, 03:38 AM

hm ... is there such thing as a bipolar tube rectified supply that could do -+ 400 V DC? I'm looking for a way to soup up the power supply

soongsc · 9th August 2007, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by luvdunhill
hm ... is there such thing as a bipolar tube rectified supply that could do -+ 400 V DC? I'm looking for a way to soup up the power supply

I think you would get more responses from threads related with power supply.

serengetiplains · 9th August 2007, 01:50 PM

luvdunhill, your ears will thank you ridding your power supply of electrolytics. Among passive components, electrolytic capacitors are the worst offenders. Actually, I hesitate to call capacitors "passive," but j'digress: electrolytics are junk offenders that diminish the finer elements of music reproduction.

I've not heard the Solen teflons, but suspect they're quite good. Teflon is at the top of the heap for capacitor dielectrics, and gives a pleasing, upgraded sound in most implementations.

Also quite good are Russian teflons of the K72P variety. I've seen 1000V versions on eBay. These capacitors have steel leads which are better removed to reveal an inner silver wire that can be drawn out of the capacitor to form the new lead.

luvdunhill · 9th August 2007, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by serengetiplains
luvdunhill, your ears will thank you ridding your power supply of electrolytics. Among passive components, electrolytic capacitors are the worst offenders. Actually, I hesitate to call capacitors "passive," but j'digress: electrolytics are junk offenders that diminish the finer elements of music reproduction.

I've not heard the Solen teflons, but suspect they're quite good. Teflon is at the top of the heap for capacitor dielectrics, and gives a pleasing, upgraded sound in most implementations.

Also quite good are Russian teflons of the K72P variety. I've seen 1000V versions on eBay. These capacitors have steel leads which are better removed to reveal an inner silver wire that can be drawn out of the capacitor to form the new lead.

I guess my question is, given the above power supply schematic which calls for 470uF / 450 electrolytic x 4, how much capacitance should I shoot for when replacing the electrolytics? After the IRFBC30 I think only 47uF is enough, but what about before? Also, this is the only rail capacitance for the entire amplifier.

serengetiplains · 9th August 2007, 02:27 PM

More capacitance than less is probably better before the C30. Start with 200uF if affordable to you. After the C30, I would think 47uF to be adequate, perhaps even too much, possibly slowing the sound somewhat; I would shoot for the best quality capacitance you can obtain for that position, including teflon bypasses. You can begin with even smaller capacitance in both positions, then use your ear to determine if adding more improves the sound.

luvdunhill · 9th August 2007, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by serengetiplains
[B]Start with 200uF if affordable to you.

what about 4 of the PP capacitors (~200uF x 2) given in my first link before the C30 and one after? Then maybe bypassing the single 47uF PP with a 0.1uF version of the teflon caps given in my last link? Would this be okay for an initial go at it, with hopes of good results?

AndrewT · 9th August 2007, 03:33 PM

Hi,
I have the cheapest Conrad Johnson pre-amp.
There are no Electrolytics anywhere.
They must have a reason.

7th August 2007, 09:01 PM	#1
luvdunhill diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2006	Recommendations on removing electrolytics from power supply Hi all! I'm looking to build this amplifier and am looking to see if it's possible (or advisable) to remove electrolytic caps from the power supply. Or maybe it's best to do a hybrid. For example, I was thinking of using one Mundorf M-Lytic HV 200+200uF 500 VDC after the diode bridge and then one 47uF PP from here after the IRF device. What do you think? Here's a link to the project Also, I'd be interested in recommendations for the 0.1uF, 1000V bias capacitors... I was condidering the SCR Teflon Tin Foil Cap that are available on Ebay here This is my first time working with such large working voltages for caps, so I'm not really sure what to do here... Thanks!

9th August 2007, 02:51 AM	#3
soongsc diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Taiwan	I do beleive that electrolytics are necessary. These seem to work best with biased voltages. I once met a person tha t did take them out and lost bass on his amps and could not figure out why. __________________ Hear the real thing!

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8th August 2007, 09:19 PM	#2
luvdunhill diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2006	where are all the part geeks?

9th August 2007, 03:38 AM	#4
luvdunhill diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2006	hm ... is there such thing as a bipolar tube rectified supply that could do -+ 400 V DC? I'm looking for a way to soup up the power supply

9th August 2007, 01:50 PM	#6
serengetiplains diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Canada	luvdunhill, your ears will thank you ridding your power supply of electrolytics. Among passive components, electrolytic capacitors are the worst offenders. Actually, I hesitate to call capacitors "passive," but j'digress: electrolytics are junk offenders that diminish the finer elements of music reproduction. I've not heard the Solen teflons, but suspect they're quite good. Teflon is at the top of the heap for capacitor dielectrics, and gives a pleasing, upgraded sound in most implementations. Also quite good are Russian teflons of the K72P variety. I've seen 1000V versions on eBay. These capacitors have steel leads which are better removed to reveal an inner silver wire that can be drawn out of the capacitor to form the new lead.

9th August 2007, 02:27 PM	#8
serengetiplains diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Canada	More capacitance than less is probably better before the C30. Start with 200uF if affordable to you. After the C30, I would think 47uF to be adequate, perhaps even too much, possibly slowing the sound somewhat; I would shoot for the best quality capacitance you can obtain for that position, including teflon bypasses. You can begin with even smaller capacitance in both positions, then use your ear to determine if adding more improves the sound.

9th August 2007, 03:33 PM	#10
AndrewT diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Scottish Borders	Hi, I have the cheapest Conrad Johnson pre-amp. There are no Electrolytics anywhere. They must have a reason.