"oil cap" is a very general name, think you have to be more specific.
Oil filled capacitors have been around for quite some time and there've been a lot of recent year developments.
Whether the target is SS, Tubeys or LS crossover filter is also left open.
The high voltage rating, power handling, and reliability of oil filled caps make/made them nice for glassworks.
Many oil caps have an attenuation at higher frequencies, for a bunch of tube amps that can be a plus.
nos oil caps by LeClanché in Switzerland were pretty pleasing imo, but that's old hat talk.
About a year ago i revisited LeClanché, old stock mkp caps of the brand and their new line of foil caps do rather nice in solid state stuff.
I favor a combination of ptfe/polystyrene/kp/mkp caps, but the voltage rating limits it mainly to SS.
Oil filled capacitors have been around for quite some time and there've been a lot of recent year developments.
Whether the target is SS, Tubeys or LS crossover filter is also left open.
The high voltage rating, power handling, and reliability of oil filled caps make/made them nice for glassworks.
Many oil caps have an attenuation at higher frequencies, for a bunch of tube amps that can be a plus.
nos oil caps by LeClanché in Switzerland were pretty pleasing imo, but that's old hat talk.
About a year ago i revisited LeClanché, old stock mkp caps of the brand and their new line of foil caps do rather nice in solid state stuff.
I favor a combination of ptfe/polystyrene/kp/mkp caps, but the voltage rating limits it mainly to SS.
oils ain't oils
I know oil filled caps have been around for donkeys. I have been in electronics/audio for 40 years. I’ve seen them leak. My base choice when it comes to audio coupling and input caps are Sprague orange drops. I find them good bangs for bucks. For a small 6T9 based amp I am about to build I went for Solens. I have been busting to try these caps for a while. I was ordering parts for another amp altogether and noticed they sold Solens too. So I snapped up a few bags full. But I guess in the end I will build something I just want to put oil in. I’m thinking oil and silver foil. I would also like to try copper and tin foil units.
Of late a I have built a few chip amps which are DC amps so no coupling or input/ouput caps required. I was wondering with any single amp you have built did you try different caps and if so did you compare oil with others and what did you find. I am busting to have a shot myself.
I know oil filled caps have been around for donkeys. I have been in electronics/audio for 40 years. I’ve seen them leak. My base choice when it comes to audio coupling and input caps are Sprague orange drops. I find them good bangs for bucks. For a small 6T9 based amp I am about to build I went for Solens. I have been busting to try these caps for a while. I was ordering parts for another amp altogether and noticed they sold Solens too. So I snapped up a few bags full. But I guess in the end I will build something I just want to put oil in. I’m thinking oil and silver foil. I would also like to try copper and tin foil units.
Of late a I have built a few chip amps which are DC amps so no coupling or input/ouput caps required. I was wondering with any single amp you have built did you try different caps and if so did you compare oil with others and what did you find. I am busting to have a shot myself.
mhouston
If you type "lcr capacitors" in Google it will give you links to both maplin and also lcr. When you see the maplin web page it will say polypropylene capacitors 250v but if you look at the picture it says 630 volts. I have bought a number of these and they are 630 v0lts and they work just fine - as all lcr capacitors do.
Don
If you type "lcr capacitors" in Google it will give you links to both maplin and also lcr. When you see the maplin web page it will say polypropylene capacitors 250v but if you look at the picture it says 630 volts. I have bought a number of these and they are 630 v0lts and they work just fine - as all lcr capacitors do.
Don
You are treading on delicate ground here.
My experience has been that you cannot make a sweeping statement about the sound of a capacitor without refering to how and where it is being used.
A cap that sounds best in one circuit implementation 'need not' be the best when used some where else .
The only way you can be sure is to try it out yourself. Sometimes a difficult and possibly expensive thing to do . But I think there is no way out.
Recently I tried an expensive film cap at the output of an amp. It sounded better than most others that I had tried. Then I decided to buy a larger capacitance ( x5 )value of the same cap to lower the low frequency roll off . It was a mistake. The larger capacitor was decidedly 'softer' sounding than it's lower value sibling.
The make and value is not important . Some other brand might have behaved quite differently.
The lesson is , pick the types you think are good and try them all in your circuit. Alternatively pick something that others prefer and stick to it.
I think there is no 'best cap' that fits all applications.
IMO paper in oils do sound very nice in tube circuits. And then again not all brands sound exactly alike plus you get lots of variations ( Cu foil , Al foil , Tin foil etc ).The same caps didn't make as great a difference in some ss circuits.
I have come across cheap electrolytics sounding very good compared to very expensive film caps. You MUST try the caps to know how it will sound in your application. It's TIY all the way !
Cheers.
( TIY - Try It Yourself )
My experience has been that you cannot make a sweeping statement about the sound of a capacitor without refering to how and where it is being used.
A cap that sounds best in one circuit implementation 'need not' be the best when used some where else .
The only way you can be sure is to try it out yourself. Sometimes a difficult and possibly expensive thing to do . But I think there is no way out.
Recently I tried an expensive film cap at the output of an amp. It sounded better than most others that I had tried. Then I decided to buy a larger capacitance ( x5 )value of the same cap to lower the low frequency roll off . It was a mistake. The larger capacitor was decidedly 'softer' sounding than it's lower value sibling.
The make and value is not important . Some other brand might have behaved quite differently.
The lesson is , pick the types you think are good and try them all in your circuit. Alternatively pick something that others prefer and stick to it.
I think there is no 'best cap' that fits all applications.
IMO paper in oils do sound very nice in tube circuits. And then again not all brands sound exactly alike plus you get lots of variations ( Cu foil , Al foil , Tin foil etc ).The same caps didn't make as great a difference in some ss circuits.
I have come across cheap electrolytics sounding very good compared to very expensive film caps. You MUST try the caps to know how it will sound in your application. It's TIY all the way !
Cheers.
( TIY - Try It Yourself )
AMV8 said:
Hi Don Volante,
a blind man does not even need a cane to find his way through paradise.
450Vac=635Vdc.
With 4 wheels instead of the mono-cane, a 25uF/635V and higher Polyprop foil KP motor run capacitor of Spanish origin does £1.35 overhere. (borrowed the £ sign from your post)
Posh blokes such as myself still retain that oldfashioned craving for fancypants labels though, awfull habit.
By chance, did you see the pictures of 8,500 obsolete 1% accurate stacked layer Polystyrene caps with axial leads from that friendly acquaintance flash by ?
An Orange head in audio parts nirvana could not resist the temptation of 3,500 items in a matching color either, the owner was only looking for a few top notch capacitors to serve life imprisonment in the riaa section of his Pearl Phono boards.
(a bondage masochist in solitude prefers TUY)
I think this is a very wise post. Exactly my experience.ashok said:You are treading on delicate ground here.
My experience has been that you cannot make a sweeping statement about the sound of a capacitor without refering to how and where it is being used.
A cap that sounds best in one circuit implementation 'need not' be the best when used some where else .
The only way you can be sure is to try it out yourself. Sometimes a difficult and possibly expensive thing to do . But I think there is no way out.
Recently I tried an expensive film cap at the output of an amp. It sounded better than most others that I had tried. Then I decided to buy a larger capacitance ( x5 )value of the same cap to lower the low frequency roll off . It was a mistake. The larger capacitor was decidedly 'softer' sounding than it's lower value sibling.
The make and value is not important . Some other brand might have behaved quite differently.
The lesson is , pick the types you think are good and try them all in your circuit. Alternatively pick something that others prefer and stick to it.
I think there is no 'best cap' that fits all applications.
IMO paper in oils do sound very nice in tube circuits. And then again not all brands sound exactly alike plus you get lots of variations ( Cu foil , Al foil , Tin foil etc ).The same caps didn't make as great a difference in some ss circuits.
I have come across cheap electrolytics sounding very good compared to very expensive film caps. You MUST try the caps to know how it will sound in your application. It's TIY all the way !
Cheers.
( TIY - Try It Yourself )
originally posted by mhouston :
".....And the best cap you have ever used/tried is...???.."
Well .....that's a tricky question !
I've tried a few ( not all brands and types ) and like the Jensen PIO's and Mundorf supremes for tube circuits .
There is a whole range of botique caps in the market and I do not have deep enough pockets to try out all of them.
Some people think the Jensen PIO's are too 'polite' . In my application they sound just fine to my ears.
And ..... yes I do not know where I'm going ......... I'm just going!
".....And the best cap you have ever used/tried is...???.."
Well .....that's a tricky question !
I've tried a few ( not all brands and types ) and like the Jensen PIO's and Mundorf supremes for tube circuits .
There is a whole range of botique caps in the market and I do not have deep enough pockets to try out all of them.
Some people think the Jensen PIO's are too 'polite' . In my application they sound just fine to my ears.
And ..... yes I do not know where I'm going ......... I'm just going!
Jupiter - Beeswax, paper and Al foil
I started a discussion some time back about exotic caps (audio/coupling). And I received some good advice and it generated some healthy discussion - thanks to all who participated.
I thought I would bring you up to date with how the projects finished up, what I used where and how (to me) it all sounded.
Firstly the two 6T9 amps I built http://www.diyaudioprojects.com/Tubes/6T9-Tube-Amp-Kit/ I used inexpensive MKP (MKX) metalised polypropylene caps from the local electronics shop. $1.50 each. A far cry from the silver and oil cap I was looking at. I did upgrade the value of the caps in the cct. from .1uf and .01uf to .22uf for better bass. I also used the UL tap on the Edcor OPTs and removed the screen resistor.
Where exotica did come a-knock'n was in the 1uf Jupiter beeswax and paper caps I used in my latest SS preamp
http://www.diyaudioprojects.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=2
http://www.diyaudioprojects.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=0
In previous builds of this preamp I used the $1.50 quality caps above but the increase from .47uf to 1uf and a far better cap lifted the bass and focus considerably.
http://www.diyaudioprojects.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=18
The Sound: The two 6T9 SE Pentode UL have a massive and detailed sound stage and are excellent to listen to through my Fostex FE167E boxes
http://www.diyaudioprojects.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=44
Not sure how the caps changed or enhanced this sound. But the SS preamp with the Jupiters is astounding. Deep, deep extended bass which is multi-textured. Breathy, airy mids. Clean treble.
That's how I see it anyway.
I started a discussion some time back about exotic caps (audio/coupling). And I received some good advice and it generated some healthy discussion - thanks to all who participated.
I thought I would bring you up to date with how the projects finished up, what I used where and how (to me) it all sounded.
Firstly the two 6T9 amps I built http://www.diyaudioprojects.com/Tubes/6T9-Tube-Amp-Kit/ I used inexpensive MKP (MKX) metalised polypropylene caps from the local electronics shop. $1.50 each. A far cry from the silver and oil cap I was looking at. I did upgrade the value of the caps in the cct. from .1uf and .01uf to .22uf for better bass. I also used the UL tap on the Edcor OPTs and removed the screen resistor.
Where exotica did come a-knock'n was in the 1uf Jupiter beeswax and paper caps I used in my latest SS preamp
http://www.diyaudioprojects.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=2
http://www.diyaudioprojects.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=0
In previous builds of this preamp I used the $1.50 quality caps above but the increase from .47uf to 1uf and a far better cap lifted the bass and focus considerably.
http://www.diyaudioprojects.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=18
The Sound: The two 6T9 SE Pentode UL have a massive and detailed sound stage and are excellent to listen to through my Fostex FE167E boxes
http://www.diyaudioprojects.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=44
Not sure how the caps changed or enhanced this sound. But the SS preamp with the Jupiters is astounding. Deep, deep extended bass which is multi-textured. Breathy, airy mids. Clean treble.
That's how I see it anyway.
The bottom line...
The bottom line is whether you are happy with what you have done.
If so , then you have 'arrived' !
Stay there as long as you can before the tweaking itch gets you going again . The catch to doing all this is to arrive at some configuration that you are 'happy' with. Then stay there and listen to all your collection of music until you feel that you 'could' possibly improve the sound. Most often that might just mean a change in what you hear rather than an actual 'improvement' and of course added expense and usage of precious time.
This processs will keep you happily going in this lifetime ! Great ...huh ?
Happy to hear that your effort has satisfied you . I'm sure it sounds good. Between Jupiter and Mundorf Supreme , I picked Mundorf 'in my system'. Jupiter was good too but I 'felt' that I prefered the sound with the Mundorf !
Cheers.
The bottom line is whether you are happy with what you have done.
If so , then you have 'arrived' !
Stay there as long as you can before the tweaking itch gets you going again . The catch to doing all this is to arrive at some configuration that you are 'happy' with. Then stay there and listen to all your collection of music until you feel that you 'could' possibly improve the sound. Most often that might just mean a change in what you hear rather than an actual 'improvement' and of course added expense and usage of precious time.
This processs will keep you happily going in this lifetime ! Great ...huh ?
Happy to hear that your effort has satisfied you . I'm sure it sounds good. Between Jupiter and Mundorf Supreme , I picked Mundorf 'in my system'. Jupiter was good too but I 'felt' that I prefered the sound with the Mundorf !
Cheers.
The Bumble bee
I like the esoteric U R coming from. Mundorf looks good. But u know in the end it was the "hand made" that cranked me into a start. So the Beeswax got me in. No regrets.
I have to confess. And not even my mother site/blog knows this at this point. The latest SS preamp, employing the Jupiters, had clipping problems. I dropped the balance control out. But the balance drops 3db of gain. The second stage of the preamp was being over driven. I mimicked the balance control and the clipping vanished.
So getting back to the Jupiters, I think they are the greatest caps ever. I'm about to order more for another Tea Box valve preamp
http://www.diyaudioprojects.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=13
and SS preamp
http://www.diyaudioprojects.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=2
http://www.diyaudioprojects.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=0
I like the esoteric U R coming from. Mundorf looks good. But u know in the end it was the "hand made" that cranked me into a start. So the Beeswax got me in. No regrets.
I have to confess. And not even my mother site/blog knows this at this point. The latest SS preamp, employing the Jupiters, had clipping problems. I dropped the balance control out. But the balance drops 3db of gain. The second stage of the preamp was being over driven. I mimicked the balance control and the clipping vanished.
So getting back to the Jupiters, I think they are the greatest caps ever. I'm about to order more for another Tea Box valve preamp
http://www.diyaudioprojects.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=13
and SS preamp
http://www.diyaudioprojects.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=2
http://www.diyaudioprojects.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=0
Interesting test.
I thought I'd just let fly a comment about some experimentation I did long ago.
I had a ss preamp with tubed input power amp ( a hybrid ). The power amp had an input capacitor though it didn't need one. A little dc offset didn't hurt it at it's input.
One day I removed the cap as it didn't need one.
The sound degraded though it didn't cause any significant dc bias shift . I put back the cap ( Solen ) and it sounded great again !
Never understood what happened and didn't try to since.
I am sure it's not due to dc shift in the tube bias as it hardly affected it. I can't find my files so I cannot give any data now.
It's got me thinking again .
I thought I'd just let fly a comment about some experimentation I did long ago.
I had a ss preamp with tubed input power amp ( a hybrid ). The power amp had an input capacitor though it didn't need one. A little dc offset didn't hurt it at it's input.
One day I removed the cap as it didn't need one.
The sound degraded though it didn't cause any significant dc bias shift . I put back the cap ( Solen ) and it sounded great again !
Never understood what happened and didn't try to since.
I am sure it's not due to dc shift in the tube bias as it hardly affected it. I can't find my files so I cannot give any data now.
It's got me thinking again .
Re: Jupiter
Interestingly, at the time i also used the Jupiters at a junction with very low dc and was easy to compare them both against no cap as well as against other caps. The "no cap" connection was clearly better than the Jupiters but the difference would only bother me in a direct A-B, i.e. was pretty much irrelevant in normal listening. The point is that near zero dc bias is commonly accepted as a bad operating point for caps. Are the Jupiters particularly suited for this?
mhouston said:
Interestingly, at the time i also used the Jupiters at a junction with very low dc and was easy to compare them both against no cap as well as against other caps. The "no cap" connection was clearly better than the Jupiters but the difference would only bother me in a direct A-B, i.e. was pretty much irrelevant in normal listening. The point is that near zero dc bias is commonly accepted as a bad operating point for caps. Are the Jupiters particularly suited for this?
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