capacitors: panasonic FC vs elna RJH vs rubycon ZA capacitors - diyAudio
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Old 25th January 2003, 12:38 PM   #1
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Default capacitors: panasonic FC vs elna RJH vs rubycon ZA capacitors

has anybody tried these caps a/b? how do they sound? the rubycon seem to have the best performance on paper, next the elna's and last the panasonics...no clue for sonics, however.
finally...are these low impedance...bla...bla...bla...caps comperable to... lets say ...elna cerafine or black gate standard series? the rubycon make another ultra low impedance series (ZL) stunning in on paper performance...(and in price too..$2.5 for the 100uf/50V..THATS COMPERABLE TO THE BLACK GATES, EITHER?)
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Old 25th January 2003, 12:46 PM   #2
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what about these???????????
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Old 25th January 2003, 01:33 PM   #3
raul_77 is offline raul_77  Europe
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Hi all,

I have recomended other times the reading of the six articles written by Cyril Bateman in Electronics World & Wireless World.

In the last article are made some measurements in the best part of the 'special' electrolitic capacitors in the market, included Elna and Rubycon.

Also are show the construction of the electrolitic capacitors. Are form for two sections, anode and catode, only the anode support all the voltage especified for the capacitor, so, the catode, initate the distortion first, and are this distortion that dominate.

In a 'standard' capacitor the catode voltage is about 0,5V, in a Rubycon Black Gate is about 3V. This is the main reason for the best sound of the 'special' capacitors.

The no-polarized capacitors show better measurements -logical- are building with two anodes, as to say, the two sections are equal strong, and no one dominate over the other.

And, if you use two no-polarized capacitors back-to-back, you obtain a new capacitor with the middle capacity, but with two more strongs sections. The distortion of this 'new' capacitor is almost comparable to the film capacitors.

Much, much better than 'special' capacitors, and much, much cheap.

You have no-polarized capacitors in Farnell, from Mitai and Panasonic, but all the brands made no-polarized capacitors.

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Old 25th January 2003, 03:18 PM   #4
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Hi!

The german audio DIY distributor Schuro (www.schuro.de) says that Panasonic FC are better (for audio purposes) than Elna Cerafine in nearly all regards (faster, better reproduction of details). And also high end DIY provider Thel (www.thel.de) nowadays only uses the FC series.

I always order FC for my projects, only if a specific value is not available as FC, I look for Elna Cerafine (e.g. 1 uF / 50 V).

Black Gates are simply too expensive for me...

Panasonic FCs are newer than Cerafines, which have been around for a while. There are people who claim that Elnas sound like crap if compared to FC, I would say that this is a little bit too harsh a judgement...

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Arndt
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Old 25th January 2003, 03:31 PM   #5
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And, if you use two no-polarized capacitors back-to-back, you obtain a new capacitor with the middle capacity, but with two more strongs sections. The distortion of this 'new' capacitor is almost comparable to the film capacitors.

Much, much better than 'special' capacitors, and much, much cheap.

-------------------------------------------------------

This was the conclusion by Marsh et al in Audio some 20 years ago.

Cyril Bateman's article should be named 'Capacitor Distortion' not 'Capcitor Sound'. Nitai capacitors sound aweful to me, even if the distortion is low. My experience is also that back to back connections DO NOT IMPROVE SOUND. In all cases I have come across, replacement by a single, high quality unit improves sonics.
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Old 28th January 2003, 09:59 AM   #6
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I've used the Matshushita (Panasonic) caps in three vintage amps I've restored. Sonics are much improved over even the original sound. And the biggest plus for those of us in the US, they are easy to get (Digikey). I still hesitate to install them in the signal path, and I'd never use back-to-back DC electrolytics to substitute for a decent non-polar cap, but that's just me.

Maybe not a big deal, but the FC caps look cool too (dark blue and gold, my old school colors ).

Although the FC series is not that old, Matsushita has another newer line of low ESR caps that has been announced recently, the FK series. I do not know anywhere where they are available though...
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Old 28th January 2003, 02:47 PM   #7
Philo is offline Philo  United States
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I haven't compared the Panasonics yet but I thinkI am going to try them out in my AlephX. Maybe A/B them with the Rubycons I normally use if I have the time. I have used Blackgates before and, with the exception of N or NX types, the Rubycons sound just as nice to me and are much cheaper. I haven't looked into whether there is any trickle-down technology from the Blackgates being used in the other Rubycon types yet. Maybe another member has. The problem I have found is that the Rubycons and Elnas just aren't as readily available to the average builder in the US. I have been buying mine at surplus shops but have yet to find a "retailer" that will sell new ones in the type I like and in small quanities. Mouser sells some types of Rubycons but not the type I prefer (YXG or YXF). I also would like to try out their new ZA series if I can find a source. If anyone knows a good source I would appreciate it. If I can't find a source for new Rubycons I'll probably switch to the Panasonics in the future.
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Old 28th January 2003, 04:51 PM   #8
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I also would like to try out their new ZA series if I can find a source. If anyone knows a good source I would appreciate it. If I can't find a source for new Rubycons I'll probably switch to the Panasonics in the future. [/B][/QUOTE]
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farnell.com - they do a big range of rubycons. Read the description carefully to find the lowest impedance.
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Old 30th January 2003, 12:05 AM   #9
JoeBob is offline JoeBob  Canada
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I use Panasonic FC types and for low voltages work perfectly fine (never compared to Black Gates, too rich for my blood, but they're the best electrolytics I've ever used). And the Panasonic FK series are available from Digikey although only as SMT parts.
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Old 30th January 2003, 12:38 AM   #10
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The Pana. FK's has lower esr than the *SMD* FC's, not the radial FC's.
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