It's time to replace my oscilloscope (Philips PM3070) with a new model. The Philips has had more failures during it's lifetime than I can tolerate. It has failed yet again (variable channel B vertical gain is not working). Service costs are far too high to justify a repair. This is a 100 MHz dual channel 'scope with cursors and readouts. I did like the display and it's still very good. I also have a Tek 2235 and 2213A. The 2235 has broken knobs (during a move 
).
I recently had the opportunity to have three 'scope for demos. They were the DPO4032 Tektronix and two from Agilent, the MSO6104A and DSO5032. I'll talk about my impressions in the following posts. Please feel free to ask any questions or add your own experiences with these models.
I will say that I didn't get as much time with any of these 'scopes as I would have liked to due to some medical issues I'm dealing with. I also approached each one without reading the operation manuals. Partly due to time issues, and partly due to the fact that I wanted to see how intuitive the operation was for each.
The common features these 'scope all share is the ease with which they can be added to your ethernet (love this!!!). These will all use DHCP to discover and set themselves up to your network. They can be set up or modified easily manually. I recommend this approach. They all share very similar rubber buttons and LCD screens and auto detecting probes. Each also has some FFT ability, I particularly am interested in this feature.
I am hoping this may help some of you when it comes time to purchase one of these, new or used.
I would like to thank Anwer Sagher of Electro Rent and Phil and Rob from Electrosonic for their assistance in obtaining these products for review. I'd also like to thank Barnie Floto of Agilent Technologies for his help in this.
-Chris
).I recently had the opportunity to have three 'scope for demos. They were the DPO4032 Tektronix and two from Agilent, the MSO6104A and DSO5032. I'll talk about my impressions in the following posts. Please feel free to ask any questions or add your own experiences with these models.
I will say that I didn't get as much time with any of these 'scopes as I would have liked to due to some medical issues I'm dealing with. I also approached each one without reading the operation manuals. Partly due to time issues, and partly due to the fact that I wanted to see how intuitive the operation was for each.
The common features these 'scope all share is the ease with which they can be added to your ethernet (love this!!!). These will all use DHCP to discover and set themselves up to your network. They can be set up or modified easily manually. I recommend this approach. They all share very similar rubber buttons and LCD screens and auto detecting probes. Each also has some FFT ability, I particularly am interested in this feature.
I am hoping this may help some of you when it comes time to purchase one of these, new or used.
I would like to thank Anwer Sagher of Electro Rent and Phil and Rob from Electrosonic for their assistance in obtaining these products for review. I'd also like to thank Barnie Floto of Agilent Technologies for his help in this.
-Chris
My experience with early lower end Tek scopes having FFT was pretty dismal, and I had such high hopes. The problem was signal to noise ratio and lack of a log display. If the newer scopes can overcome that, they might be far more useful, though maybe aliasing makes it an unreasonable request. You also need a sharp display with more than 8 bits of vertical resolution for audio work, to see clues about misbehavior. This statement sounds like the many tube-transistor arguments: The digital scopes give me a cold clinical test bench experience, which though very efficient for certain tasks, never provides me the tactile sense and enjoyment that a good old tube scope offers!
The MSO6104A
This was the first victim. Agilent and Tektronix both send lot's of information out. I was lucky enough to attend a DSO workshop with Agilent. They didn't compare to other brands, but rather showed the class how to use the different features of their products. We did use the MSO6104A for the day. If you can get into one of these workshops, do it if you will be buying soon.
This 'scope is a little shorter than the average oscilloscope, but longer than the others tested. It's also a little heavier (yahoo!). The screen is very high quality, images had much more detail when I wore my glasses. In common with the other 'scopes, it has a video connector so you can attach a large monitor.
I found this scope better than I expected when it came to viewing analog signals. Even the eye pattern from a CD was pretty clear, but not as good as an analog 'scope. I'm going to keep an analog around for situations like this. This unit has the ability to vary it's acquisition method to suit the situation. It has a high resolution mode (greater than the 8 bit standard), averaging, normal and (I forgot, didn't use it). This was very useful in FFT mode. The FFT window type is variable as well. It has some automatic measurement modes that also make life easier. Connecting probes and cables was easy on this one because it didn't skid away from you as you tried to do this. Fan noise was pretty low as well. There is also a very handy probe storage compartment on top.
Connecting this to my network allowed me to both control the 'scope from any computer and also download waveforms very easily. The software is a free download, but a simple web browser is what I used the most. I can't tell you how valuable this feature is! Also, software upgrades are extremely simple to accomplish on the network. There is also a USB port on the front for file storage or upgrades. All these 'scopes share this feature. This 'scope will also connect to your PC via a USB port on the back, it also has another USB port (host) where it can control a printer connected directly to it for hard copies.
In all, I found this and the DSO5032 far easier to get useful information from. All these 'scopes have a screen saver built in. Cool.
Personally, I much prefer this 'scope over the others tested. You can also start with a standard 1 Mb model and expand it to 2 or 8 Mb of memory. The DSO 6xxx models can be retrofitted with the MSO option later also (making it an MSO 6xxx). That allows you to protect your investment.
-Chris
This was the first victim. Agilent and Tektronix both send lot's of information out. I was lucky enough to attend a DSO workshop with Agilent. They didn't compare to other brands, but rather showed the class how to use the different features of their products. We did use the MSO6104A for the day. If you can get into one of these workshops, do it if you will be buying soon.
This 'scope is a little shorter than the average oscilloscope, but longer than the others tested. It's also a little heavier (yahoo!). The screen is very high quality, images had much more detail when I wore my glasses. In common with the other 'scopes, it has a video connector so you can attach a large monitor.
I found this scope better than I expected when it came to viewing analog signals. Even the eye pattern from a CD was pretty clear, but not as good as an analog 'scope. I'm going to keep an analog around for situations like this. This unit has the ability to vary it's acquisition method to suit the situation. It has a high resolution mode (greater than the 8 bit standard), averaging, normal and (I forgot, didn't use it). This was very useful in FFT mode. The FFT window type is variable as well. It has some automatic measurement modes that also make life easier. Connecting probes and cables was easy on this one because it didn't skid away from you as you tried to do this. Fan noise was pretty low as well. There is also a very handy probe storage compartment on top.
Connecting this to my network allowed me to both control the 'scope from any computer and also download waveforms very easily. The software is a free download, but a simple web browser is what I used the most. I can't tell you how valuable this feature is! Also, software upgrades are extremely simple to accomplish on the network. There is also a USB port on the front for file storage or upgrades. All these 'scopes share this feature. This 'scope will also connect to your PC via a USB port on the back, it also has another USB port (host) where it can control a printer connected directly to it for hard copies.
In all, I found this and the DSO5032 far easier to get useful information from. All these 'scopes have a screen saver built in. Cool.
Personally, I much prefer this 'scope over the others tested. You can also start with a standard 1 Mb model and expand it to 2 or 8 Mb of memory. The DSO 6xxx models can be retrofitted with the MSO option later also (making it an MSO 6xxx). That allows you to protect your investment.
-Chris
The DSO5032A
This little fella was next on the hit list. Using was a snap since it is almost identical to the MSO6xxx series. This is a really nice, powerful little 'scope. I believe it comes with 1 Mb of ram. I don't think it is as upgradeable as the DSO/MSO 6xxx series.
This one had the lower bandwidth probes that I found harder to use. The 'scope is so light that is tended to move anytime I attempted to make connections. You will either have to lash it down or hold it still with your other hand. I hate that. The fan noise was louder than the MSO 6104A. Probably due to the much shorter case. I was worried it may fall over, it's so short. The screen looks like the same high quality one the bigger brother uses. I didn't find any operational differences with this except for some menu features missing. I would probably be happy with this if 1.) It didn't move around so much and 2.) the fan wasn't quite as loud. It is much quieter than my Philips, so that is really a non-issue for me. I just want it to make less noise. I would want the better probes (like the ones supplied with the 500 MHz model).
Both of the Agilent products fit in my spot for a 'scope. The screen is larger than a standard analog 'scope. I really, really hated to pack these back up. Using them was enjoyable. Both these models reacted very quickly to front panel controls and updated the screen very quickly.
-Chris
This little fella was next on the hit list. Using was a snap since it is almost identical to the MSO6xxx series. This is a really nice, powerful little 'scope. I believe it comes with 1 Mb of ram. I don't think it is as upgradeable as the DSO/MSO 6xxx series.
This one had the lower bandwidth probes that I found harder to use. The 'scope is so light that is tended to move anytime I attempted to make connections. You will either have to lash it down or hold it still with your other hand. I hate that. The fan noise was louder than the MSO 6104A. Probably due to the much shorter case. I was worried it may fall over, it's so short. The screen looks like the same high quality one the bigger brother uses. I didn't find any operational differences with this except for some menu features missing. I would probably be happy with this if 1.) It didn't move around so much and 2.) the fan wasn't quite as loud. It is much quieter than my Philips, so that is really a non-issue for me. I just want it to make less noise. I would want the better probes (like the ones supplied with the 500 MHz model).
Both of the Agilent products fit in my spot for a 'scope. The screen is larger than a standard analog 'scope. I really, really hated to pack these back up. Using them was enjoyable. Both these models reacted very quickly to front panel controls and updated the screen very quickly.
-Chris
The DPO4032
This was the last unit I evaluated. By now I was pretty good at getting around a digital scope (a little different than an analog unit).
This one I found more difficult to use. It has more controls, but is harder for me to use. I'll let others chime in here with their experiences.
When you first turn this guy on, it shows the Tektronix splash screen with the iP address, but unlike the Agilent, it will not go into a usable mode until you press the menu button. The fan roars to life, then slows down. This 'scope is noisier than the Agilent 6000 series and not as loud as the 5000 series. It does put out more heat. So much so that I measured the ambient air and exhaust air. This unit's exhaust temperature is 20 ° hotter that the inlet temperature! This is not trivial and I am uncomfortable with this. I wish I had measured the Agilent 'scopes, but the heat did not attract my attention.
Okay, onward. This 'scope has a giant screen. No way will it fit where any other 'scope fits on my bench. It is also very thin and tends to move when you are making connections. I didn't see where the acquisition could be changed. This may be possible, but it is buried somewhere in the menus if it is. Also, some menus covered up a portion of the screen on the right hand side. This was annoying. Manipulating the FFT was possibly easier than the Agilent. I'm not sure on that point. I did find the large screen not to helpful. If I want detail, I'll capture the waveform and view it on my computer. I would much rather have it fit where most 'scopes will fit.
I believe that this is a good 'scope, but it is priced in the Agilent 6000 series range. I think the Agilent offers more for the money and the Agilent is easier to use (for me).
This was the last unit I evaluated. By now I was pretty good at getting around a digital scope (a little different than an analog unit).
This one I found more difficult to use. It has more controls, but is harder for me to use. I'll let others chime in here with their experiences.
When you first turn this guy on, it shows the Tektronix splash screen with the iP address, but unlike the Agilent, it will not go into a usable mode until you press the menu button. The fan roars to life, then slows down. This 'scope is noisier than the Agilent 6000 series and not as loud as the 5000 series. It does put out more heat. So much so that I measured the ambient air and exhaust air. This unit's exhaust temperature is 20 ° hotter that the inlet temperature! This is not trivial and I am uncomfortable with this. I wish I had measured the Agilent 'scopes, but the heat did not attract my attention.
Okay, onward. This 'scope has a giant screen. No way will it fit where any other 'scope fits on my bench. It is also very thin and tends to move when you are making connections. I didn't see where the acquisition could be changed. This may be possible, but it is buried somewhere in the menus if it is. Also, some menus covered up a portion of the screen on the right hand side. This was annoying. Manipulating the FFT was possibly easier than the Agilent. I'm not sure on that point. I did find the large screen not to helpful. If I want detail, I'll capture the waveform and view it on my computer. I would much rather have it fit where most 'scopes will fit.
I believe that this is a good 'scope, but it is priced in the Agilent 6000 series range. I think the Agilent offers more for the money and the Agilent is easier to use (for me).
Hi Conrad,
I am using a distortion analyzer and running the residual to the 'scope. This is far more sensitive as you are reducing the original signal by 50 ~ 80 dB (depending on your THD meter).
At some point I'd like to pick up a signal analyzer, but the 'scope is more important. The included FFT function is more than enough for most of my work when coupled with the THD meter.
-Chris
I am using a distortion analyzer and running the residual to the 'scope. This is far more sensitive as you are reducing the original signal by 50 ~ 80 dB (depending on your THD meter).
At some point I'd like to pick up a signal analyzer, but the 'scope is more important. The included FFT function is more than enough for most of my work when coupled with the THD meter.
-Chris
Hi anatech: I recently got a DPO4034. The acquisition options come up as soft buttons across the screen when you hit the Acquire button in the Horizontal controls group. The standard Tek Modes are available (Sample | Peak Detect | Hi Res | Envelope | Average) and the Record Lengths (1000 | 10k | 100k | 1M | 10M), but the options are quite dismal as far as persistence and colors go. The persistence functionality seems far less realistic than the TDS series of scopes. The real bummer for me is the COMPLETE lack of color options for waveform display. I’m OK with not being able to change the basic color of the traces since they are meant to match the color coding of the inputs, but what I really miss are things like 'temperature' where the color within a trace is a function of how often the periodic signal was at a particular level.
Also, I wish they’d quit "improving" the user interface! Fewer buttons and knobs means deeper and more confusing menus to traverse – but hey, I’m sure it saves a few pennies in parts costs…
Well, in a couple weeks I will hopefully be an Agilent employee, so I s'poze I should take a closer look at their scopes. I do love Agilent logic analyzers though.
Cheers, Casey
Also, I wish they’d quit "improving" the user interface! Fewer buttons and knobs means deeper and more confusing menus to traverse – but hey, I’m sure it saves a few pennies in parts costs…
Well, in a couple weeks I will hopefully be an Agilent employee, so I s'poze I should take a closer look at their scopes. I do love Agilent logic analyzers though.
Cheers, Casey
Hi Casey,
Good luck on the possible job!
The Agilent product does vary the trace intensity as more samples take the same route. I think you're really, really going to like the Agilent a little better. That's my opinion anyway. I think Agilent groups the functions better for the user interface, although I find using FFT that I can be going up and down the tree a little more.
-Chris
Edit: Hi Giaime! Thanks.
Good luck on the possible job!
The Agilent product does vary the trace intensity as more samples take the same route. I think you're really, really going to like the Agilent a little better. That's my opinion anyway. I think Agilent groups the functions better for the user interface, although I find using FFT that I can be going up and down the tree a little more.
-Chris
Edit: Hi Giaime! Thanks.
Hi wrenchone,
Will they connect to your network? I haven't seen one, or even heard of them as yet. How is the FFT on them?
If you have time, write an entry for it. Similar to my rather disjointed effort above. Have you had a chance to compare them to any of the units I looked at for comparison?
-Chris
Will they connect to your network? I haven't seen one, or even heard of them as yet. How is the FFT on them?
If you have time, write an entry for it. Similar to my rather disjointed effort above. Have you had a chance to compare them to any of the units I looked at for comparison?
-Chris
Hi All,
You know, at this point I should describe the units I was sent.
MSO6104A four channel mixed signal 'scope, 1 GHz bandwidth. It had been outfitted with all the options and had 8 Mb of memory installed.
DSO5032A two channel 'scope, 300 MHz bandwidth with (I believe) 1 Mb of memory installed. I don't know if there are any other options without looking it up.
DPO4032 two channel 'scope, 350 MHz bandwidth. I forgot how much memory was installed. This 'scope was slow in responding to front panel controls compared to both Agilent products. It was slow enough for me to notice. There was about a week minimum between each 'scope evaluation.
-Chris
You know, at this point I should describe the units I was sent.
MSO6104A four channel mixed signal 'scope, 1 GHz bandwidth. It had been outfitted with all the options and had 8 Mb of memory installed.
DSO5032A two channel 'scope, 300 MHz bandwidth with (I believe) 1 Mb of memory installed. I don't know if there are any other options without looking it up.
DPO4032 two channel 'scope, 350 MHz bandwidth. I forgot how much memory was installed. This 'scope was slow in responding to front panel controls compared to both Agilent products. It was slow enough for me to notice. There was about a week minimum between each 'scope evaluation.
-Chris
Well folks,
I was really hoping some of you would chime in with your experiences on any DSO's you use or own. Looking for a new 'scope is hard enough without all the technology changes. My hope is that this thread can help other members who may be looking get some feedback.
wrenchone, could you please add some more info one the DSO you use at work? Anyone try the Agilent DSO3000 series (very affordable) or the affordable Tektronix types.
How about LeCroy? I've never seen one in the flesh. Even the newer USB type 'scopes would be interesting.
-Chris
I was really hoping some of you would chime in with your experiences on any DSO's you use or own. Looking for a new 'scope is hard enough without all the technology changes. My hope is that this thread can help other members who may be looking get some feedback.
wrenchone, could you please add some more info one the DSO you use at work? Anyone try the Agilent DSO3000 series (very affordable) or the affordable Tektronix types.
How about LeCroy? I've never seen one in the flesh. Even the newer USB type 'scopes would be interesting.
-Chris
As for the Yokogawa., you could no doubt find more on their current line of scopes on their website than I have time to get into at present - selling points - very small footprint, reasonable price, intuitive user interface.We also have Lecroys at my workspace. I used to like these scopes a lot, but the user interface is worse than Yokogawa (though still a lot better than Agilent/HP, unless they've made a marked change for the better lately). What really frosts me about the new Lecroys is that they've gone to a hard drive and a Windows XP operating system. I don't know about you, but I don't want to own a scope that's an overpriced laptop and can catch a virus, to boot... They also cost a lot, but that's another story.
Hi wrenchone,
You have come very close to describing an Agilent Infiniium series scope. Why Windows??? Linux is known for embedded systems.
These things are so far beyond most peoples means that I didn't really consider them. Heck, the Agilent 6000 series and Tektronix 4000 series are a long stretch for me, and most others. Out of reach unless you really want them.
Actually, I'm looking for a user's perspective rather than a list of features. Stuff that a user would notice. This is what you are stuck with after buying the 'scope. For the good or bad.
Please, if and when you get the time, your experiences would be valuable to jot down. What models of HP /Agilent did you use? I also used the 54600 series. Pain in the buttski, but I did get use to it. The new models are very close to an analog scope with some DSO wrinkles thrown in. I figured that the new Agilent ones would be easier for an analog 'scope guy to migrate to.
I haven't seen a 3000 series yet either. These are very affordable compared to many others.
-Chris
You have come very close to describing an Agilent Infiniium series scope. Why Windows??? Linux is known for embedded systems.
These things are so far beyond most peoples means that I didn't really consider them. Heck, the Agilent 6000 series and Tektronix 4000 series are a long stretch for me, and most others. Out of reach unless you really want them.
Actually, I'm looking for a user's perspective rather than a list of features. Stuff that a user would notice. This is what you are stuck with after buying the 'scope. For the good or bad.
Please, if and when you get the time, your experiences would be valuable to jot down. What models of HP /Agilent did you use? I also used the 54600 series. Pain in the buttski, but I did get use to it. The new models are very close to an analog scope with some DSO wrinkles thrown in. I figured that the new Agilent ones would be easier for an analog 'scope guy to migrate to.
I haven't seen a 3000 series yet either. These are very affordable compared to many others.
-Chris
The first question to ask is how much money are you prepared to spend? I would avoid the low priced Tek "lunch boxes", as they are woefully short on memory. I also insist on a scope with some sort of I/O rather than IEEE, as I don't bring a computer into the lab. A floppy drive for screen capture works for me. Besides, unless you are lucky a purchase, as soon as the words IEEE or HPIB come out of your mouth, you're out $500. No thanks....
If you don't have that much money to spend, and don't mind a larger footprint, you might do well with one of the older (pre-Windows!) LeCroy scopes with a floppy/printer. There are always some up on Ebay, so you can at least check out the pictures. They were one of the first DSO companies to catch on that a reasonably large memory is a good thing. If you insist on hooking the scope up to a network, I can't help you, as I haven't paid any attention to that kind of capability at all. I'm an old-fashioned sort that doesn't have much use for computers in a grubby lab environment, and absolutely frown on instruments that need to be hooked up to a computer to get them to function.
I have an HP/Agilent DSO, circa mid-90's. The number escapes me. I bought it because it had 500 MHz bandwidth, a floppy drive, and a reasonable amount of user memopry (32k/channnel). The user interface really bites it, however. To do the simplest things, I have to go scrambling for the manual to find out which menu is hiding what I want to do. As a comparison, you can stand in front of a Yokogawa scope and get to know most of the functions in 10-15 minutes with no manual.
If you don't have that much money to spend, and don't mind a larger footprint, you might do well with one of the older (pre-Windows!) LeCroy scopes with a floppy/printer. There are always some up on Ebay, so you can at least check out the pictures. They were one of the first DSO companies to catch on that a reasonably large memory is a good thing. If you insist on hooking the scope up to a network, I can't help you, as I haven't paid any attention to that kind of capability at all. I'm an old-fashioned sort that doesn't have much use for computers in a grubby lab environment, and absolutely frown on instruments that need to be hooked up to a computer to get them to function.
I have an HP/Agilent DSO, circa mid-90's. The number escapes me. I bought it because it had 500 MHz bandwidth, a floppy drive, and a reasonable amount of user memopry (32k/channnel). The user interface really bites it, however. To do the simplest things, I have to go scrambling for the manual to find out which menu is hiding what I want to do. As a comparison, you can stand in front of a Yokogawa scope and get to know most of the functions in 10-15 minutes with no manual.
Hi wrenchone,
Perfect! That is helpful, and thank you.
Have a look at the new Agilent stuff some time as they have completely changed. I suspect you were using the 54600 series and they were no fun to operate for sure (I agree 100% with you there). I'll bet the Tektronix models have also improved over time.
-Chris
Perfect! That is helpful, and thank you.
Have a look at the new Agilent stuff some time as they have completely changed. I suspect you were using the 54600 series and they were no fun to operate for sure (I agree 100% with you there).
I'll bet the Tektronix models have also improved over time.-Chris
Let me put it this way - in my lab at work, there is a Yokogawa DSO on every bench, with a couple of older Lecroys here and there. These scopes are heavily used, day in, day out with no problems. The user environment is analog development (switching power supplies). When the Agilent/Tek rep asks to call, we tell him not to bother. However, if you are a digital dweeb, one of the other brands might have a better feature set for you - I wouldn't know.
BTW - the HP Scope I have is a 54520A.
BTW - the HP Scope I have is a 54520A.
anatech said:
I've heavily used the Tektronix 3014 variety and I absolutely love them. They have a very colorful 640x480 VGA screen, which make viewing waveforms very easy. The 100MHz ones are more than enough for anything short of RF circuits, but they do have higher BW models. In the model #, the last 2 digits determine the BW and channels. 14=100MHz, 4chan; 12=100MHz, 2chan; 24=200MHz, 4chan. Even though they might be called 'lunchbox' models, they perform great. I just think people are used to heavy power supplies and CRTs for good performance. The tek's are a bit pricey though...ranging from 2.5k to 4.5k depending on #channels and options. The 20xx series has a low-res screen, but costs much less.
hope this helps,
Hi wrenchone,
I also own a horror called a Norland Prowler. Still works. It has a 12 bit channel and an 8 bit channel. Talk about user unfriendly! Didn't even have a cassette drive or floppy drive (5.25" in those days!). Back then there were few options.
I also agree that a bench 'scope should not have to depend on a computer to run. I love that I can capture data over the either net. The computer lives in a different "room".
Hey Boris,
Any info for our members will help! Thanks.
-Chris
I wasn't too happy about that one either, compared to anything these days. However, the HP (back then) were the only 'scopes I saw that would properly display an eye pattern on a CD player. The others displayed a mess. Nothing useful. Those were the early days.
I also own a horror called a Norland Prowler. Still works. It has a 12 bit channel and an 8 bit channel. Talk about user unfriendly! Didn't even have a cassette drive or floppy drive (5.25" in those days!). Back then there were few options.
I also agree that a bench 'scope should not have to depend on a computer to run. I love that I can capture data over the either net. The computer lives in a different "room".
Hey Boris,
Any info for our members will help! Thanks.
-Chris
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