Well, I'll be dipped!
Had a couple of 20 inch pieces of WLM DIY White Lightning extension cord around. That Chinese extension cord sold by Wal-Mart and Home Depot that Jeff Day reviewed in 6moons.
The pieces had already been removed from the stock casing and stripped on one end. I stripped the other end, wrapped the ends to form loops and attached them to the speaker returns on my amp.
Listened to some of my favorite recordings and heard things I never heard before. Smoother and more detailed and far more listenable.
All that with just a rough and ready application of a couple of wire loops.
Incredible!
Had a couple of 20 inch pieces of WLM DIY White Lightning extension cord around. That Chinese extension cord sold by Wal-Mart and Home Depot that Jeff Day reviewed in 6moons.
The pieces had already been removed from the stock casing and stripped on one end. I stripped the other end, wrapped the ends to form loops and attached them to the speaker returns on my amp.
Listened to some of my favorite recordings and heard things I never heard before. Smoother and more detailed and far more listenable.
All that with just a rough and ready application of a couple of wire loops.
Incredible!
Simonty,
The ancients also electro-tin coated their baskets, or perhaps it was cad plating. At least all of the 4 foot tall radios I ever climbed into did. So, you might also have to scrape the paint around the convenient hole, to get to a quasi conductive surface.
earplay,
Yup, one of those jaw droppers, or smacked gobs, next one comes when you learn how to "tune" for varying amounts of information retention/support above and below 4 kHz or so.
Bud
The ancients also electro-tin coated their baskets, or perhaps it was cad plating. At least all of the 4 foot tall radios I ever climbed into did. So, you might also have to scrape the paint around the convenient hole, to get to a quasi conductive surface.
earplay,
Yup, one of those jaw droppers, or smacked gobs, next one comes when you learn how to "tune" for varying amounts of information retention/support above and below 4 kHz or so.
Bud
Mercury Living Presence
BudP et al.,
FYI, one of my "reference" recordings is a Mercury Living Presence recording of Antol Dorati conducting the LSO. It is not one of the 35mm recordings and the disc is Redbook. This was one of the first recordings I tried in my listening test after installing two loops of extension cord wire on my amp's speaker returns.
My experience is that you are exactly right, in that the general background noise of the recording seemed to be refined into details of the performance such as attack, decay and ambient venue sounds. Also, the instruments seem full-bodied, again a function of the micro-details of the recording being properly resolved instead of being smeared into a harsh and irritating mass.
BudP et al.,
FYI, one of my "reference" recordings is a Mercury Living Presence recording of Antol Dorati conducting the LSO. It is not one of the 35mm recordings and the disc is Redbook. This was one of the first recordings I tried in my listening test after installing two loops of extension cord wire on my amp's speaker returns.
My experience is that you are exactly right, in that the general background noise of the recording seemed to be refined into details of the performance such as attack, decay and ambient venue sounds. Also, the instruments seem full-bodied, again a function of the micro-details of the recording being properly resolved instead of being smeared into a harsh and irritating mass.
earplay,
Now lets do something actually scary, that makes this look like kindergarten. Join the madmen howling down this road, just for a thrill.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1460031#post1460031
Bud
Now lets do something actually scary, that makes this look like kindergarten. Join the madmen howling down this road, just for a thrill.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1460031#post1460031
Bud
breaking-in vs broken-in
BudP,
I'm an adventurous guy and have considered EnABLing my Hornshoppe Horns. I haven't for three reasons.
First, I have nerve damage and my hands are not up to that kind of precision any more.
Second, while I know I could have it done, that would cost me $$ and, third, I am unsure it would make much difference as my Horns are already broken-in. Maybe you could tell me.
I've cooked up another scheme that would probably fit within your cognitive domain. I'm using currently WLM DIY White Lightning speaker cable- that Home Depot/Wal-Mart Chinese extension cord that sounds so good. I've soldered it directly to the drivers in my Horns.
I am planning to install about twenty inches of Oyaide Across 2000 Ohno copper speaker cable to the ends of my cheapie WLM speaker cables and attach that to my drivers. The notion is that the hybrid cables will sound like the entire length is composed of the Oyaide cable. I think the Crystal Cable Bridge and the Acoustic System International Liveline IC use the same principle. Any thoughts on this- that is, if I haven't wandered too far OT.
BudP,
I'm an adventurous guy and have considered EnABLing my Hornshoppe Horns. I haven't for three reasons.
First, I have nerve damage and my hands are not up to that kind of precision any more.
Second, while I know I could have it done, that would cost me $$ and, third, I am unsure it would make much difference as my Horns are already broken-in. Maybe you could tell me.
I've cooked up another scheme that would probably fit within your cognitive domain. I'm using currently WLM DIY White Lightning speaker cable- that Home Depot/Wal-Mart Chinese extension cord that sounds so good. I've soldered it directly to the drivers in my Horns.
I am planning to install about twenty inches of Oyaide Across 2000 Ohno copper speaker cable to the ends of my cheapie WLM speaker cables and attach that to my drivers. The notion is that the hybrid cables will sound like the entire length is composed of the Oyaide cable. I think the Crystal Cable Bridge and the Acoustic System International Liveline IC use the same principle. Any thoughts on this- that is, if I haven't wandered too far OT.
Re: breaking-in vs broken-in
Just talk to any of many Hornshoppe owners who have installed FE126eN.
Peter for instance http://www.planet10-hifi.com/driver-reviews.html#peterC
dave
earplay said:
Just talk to any of many Hornshoppe owners who have installed FE126eN.
Peter for instance http://www.planet10-hifi.com/driver-reviews.html#peterC
dave
earplay,
I cannot speak to any particular cable, I ignore them utterly. I will point out the following information and speculations that guide what I do with cables, both speaker and interconnect. Perhaps it will help you to make sense of whatever you do find for a result.
The mother of all loss of tone is a dielectric and it's relationship to the Electrostatic moment. This is at the point where an electrical field ceases it's progression down a wave guide and the place markers within the wave guide, called electrons or electron holes, are called upon to hold the field structure intact, while it changes vector. The particular electron in question here is one of many billions involved in the same activity, during this not quite timeless moment.
The electron causes the electrons on the end of a "dielectric material" molecular chain to, likely, spin in the obverse of the direction of the signal fields electrons spin. This causes the electron at the other end of the dielectric chain to mimic the original field electrons spin and a subsequent latching to a nearby electron, causing the obverse spin again. This is how capacitors signal across the dielectric barrier, from plate to plate. Also how transformers accomplish the Electrostatic portion of the antenna function, across their dielectric barriers.
In the case of the wave guide, cross dielectric signaling is not the desired activity, but it happens anyway. What is needed is that all levels of charge are able to latch on to a dielectric, for the vector change activity. Dielectric constants, made up of a number of factors, are a description of what the charge versus time thresholds are for differing materials. Basically, the lower the Dielectric Constant the better, with vacuum being ideal, hence the audible superiority of vacuum capacitors over every other format. The plate electrons act upon each other directly, without arcing between plates (so the D Field and E Field are not altered).
Most cables are comprised of multiple dielectric materials and only the cable maker, not usually the cable marketer by the way, knows what they have done in there. You can be sure that in all but a few cases, their choices of dielectric materials were not based upon any audio considerations. So, your additional cable, with its unknown materials will affect some losses, in addition to the other losses inherent in a particular moment, which will stretch through a good portion of your audio chain, from signal source to speakers.
My general take is to use a wave guide with many paths and massive surface area versus material mass, apply the minimum amount of extra dielectric material to bring the dynamic color retention up to a level I enjoy and call it good. I have some advantages in that I own a transformer company and so have actual Litz wire to hand, along with the polyethylene shrink tube I use for periodic dielectric "islands" along the course of a length of cable.
Bud
I cannot speak to any particular cable, I ignore them utterly. I will point out the following information and speculations that guide what I do with cables, both speaker and interconnect. Perhaps it will help you to make sense of whatever you do find for a result.
The mother of all loss of tone is a dielectric and it's relationship to the Electrostatic moment. This is at the point where an electrical field ceases it's progression down a wave guide and the place markers within the wave guide, called electrons or electron holes, are called upon to hold the field structure intact, while it changes vector. The particular electron in question here is one of many billions involved in the same activity, during this not quite timeless moment.
The electron causes the electrons on the end of a "dielectric material" molecular chain to, likely, spin in the obverse of the direction of the signal fields electrons spin. This causes the electron at the other end of the dielectric chain to mimic the original field electrons spin and a subsequent latching to a nearby electron, causing the obverse spin again. This is how capacitors signal across the dielectric barrier, from plate to plate. Also how transformers accomplish the Electrostatic portion of the antenna function, across their dielectric barriers.
In the case of the wave guide, cross dielectric signaling is not the desired activity, but it happens anyway. What is needed is that all levels of charge are able to latch on to a dielectric, for the vector change activity. Dielectric constants, made up of a number of factors, are a description of what the charge versus time thresholds are for differing materials. Basically, the lower the Dielectric Constant the better, with vacuum being ideal, hence the audible superiority of vacuum capacitors over every other format. The plate electrons act upon each other directly, without arcing between plates (so the D Field and E Field are not altered).
Most cables are comprised of multiple dielectric materials and only the cable maker, not usually the cable marketer by the way, knows what they have done in there. You can be sure that in all but a few cases, their choices of dielectric materials were not based upon any audio considerations. So, your additional cable, with its unknown materials will affect some losses, in addition to the other losses inherent in a particular moment, which will stretch through a good portion of your audio chain, from signal source to speakers.
My general take is to use a wave guide with many paths and massive surface area versus material mass, apply the minimum amount of extra dielectric material to bring the dynamic color retention up to a level I enjoy and call it good. I have some advantages in that I own a transformer company and so have actual Litz wire to hand, along with the polyethylene shrink tube I use for periodic dielectric "islands" along the course of a length of cable.
Bud
earplay
As for Hornshoppe's excellent horns, Ed is, the last time I spoke with him, 100% in favor of EnABL, as applied either by me, and called out in the appropriate forum post here,
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1466489#post1466489
or the version he has developed, which I have not heard.
He will be somewhat less happy with the Planet 10 version, even though they are audibly superior to both of our versions. This because he and Dave just cannot be on the same chunk of dirt without causing electrical discharge and storms all out of proportion to the reality of the event.
Not a worry, usually, but he will support your questions about applying the process to your drivers.
Bud
As for Hornshoppe's excellent horns, Ed is, the last time I spoke with him, 100% in favor of EnABL, as applied either by me, and called out in the appropriate forum post here,
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1466489#post1466489
or the version he has developed, which I have not heard.
He will be somewhat less happy with the Planet 10 version, even though they are audibly superior to both of our versions. This because he and Dave just cannot be on the same chunk of dirt without causing electrical discharge and storms all out of proportion to the reality of the event.
Not a worry, usually, but he will support your questions about applying the process to your drivers.
Bud
Michael,
Just another way of thinking about an electrical signal, moving down a cable, rather than propagating in free air. I suppose electrical field guide is more precise, but not as sexy sounding.
The loop of wire, at below local ground potential, may have nothing to do with classical wave guide theory. It does allow me to think about a possible method, that would allow an electrical field to utilize something like this loop of wire as a local, preferred, Electrostatic Field moment location. Pure speculation on my part at the moment.
Bud
Just another way of thinking about an electrical signal, moving down a cable, rather than propagating in free air. I suppose electrical field guide is more precise, but not as sexy sounding.
The loop of wire, at below local ground potential, may have nothing to do with classical wave guide theory. It does allow me to think about a possible method, that would allow an electrical field to utilize something like this loop of wire as a local, preferred, Electrostatic Field moment location. Pure speculation on my part at the moment.
Bud
The spin of electrons, as described to me, was the leading theory of how information makes it's way across a dielectric structures chain of molecules. I am also aware that charge transfer mechanism's have been theorized too. And likely others I have no knowledge of.
The spin mechanism does provide a handy explanation for varying charge thresholds and time to charge limits that make up a portion of the term "Dielectric Constant" for differing dielectric materials. There is some interesting new evidence concerning electromagnetic manipulation of electron spin direction and axial tilt, that may or may not cause me to alter how I think about dielectric materials.
Bud
The spin mechanism does provide a handy explanation for varying charge thresholds and time to charge limits that make up a portion of the term "Dielectric Constant" for differing dielectric materials. There is some interesting new evidence concerning electromagnetic manipulation of electron spin direction and axial tilt, that may or may not cause me to alter how I think about dielectric materials.
Bud
0.25mm magnet wire was the thinnest I could find. I used the polyefelin (sp?) heatshrink which is supposedly 2.2 or there abouts, so far as dialectric constant is concerned.
60 x15cm loop pairs with 3x 25mm pcs heatshrink evenly spaced, centre pce slit outer third from both ends to centre. Placed at speaker return terminal.
Yes, theres an audible difference. Easily discernable and with my application for the better. -3dB around 3kHz with an increase in coherence and everything that goes with that.
Have made since two other pairs the same but with 100 loops for DAC output/TVC junction (one box) and input/driver star earth point on the amplifiers and they're being charged up now.
Question is.. whats going on here?. How and Why?.
I guess regardless of all this.. thanks to Bud for sharing this.
Shane
60 x15cm loop pairs with 3x 25mm pcs heatshrink evenly spaced, centre pce slit outer third from both ends to centre. Placed at speaker return terminal.
Yes, theres an audible difference. Easily discernable and with my application for the better. -3dB around 3kHz with an increase in coherence and everything that goes with that.
Have made since two other pairs the same but with 100 loops for DAC output/TVC junction (one box) and input/driver star earth point on the amplifiers and they're being charged up now.
Question is.. whats going on here?. How and Why?.
I guess regardless of all this.. thanks to Bud for sharing this.
Shane
DISCLAIMER:
I accept no responsibility whatsoever should you do this for yourself. Do this at your own risk.
This is only connected to earth, but please be careful when playing near mains power.
G'day All,
I've been wondering whether EP's might be effective at the earth for mains power...
So two days ago I made up a plug with just the earth pin in place (active and neutral pins removed) and connected two EPs.
Each EPs is 140 strands of 0.25mm magnet wire that I bought from Jaycar.
Both EPs connected at the earth pin inside the plug, and the other ends held together with duct tape - so in parallel.
Then I plugged into the wall outlet where my system is connected.
Results?
Well, I'll just say that you may want to try it for yourself.
Cheers,
Alex
I accept no responsibility whatsoever should you do this for yourself. Do this at your own risk.
This is only connected to earth, but please be careful when playing near mains power.
G'day All,
I've been wondering whether EP's might be effective at the earth for mains power...
So two days ago I made up a plug with just the earth pin in place (active and neutral pins removed) and connected two EPs.
Each EPs is 140 strands of 0.25mm magnet wire that I bought from Jaycar.
Both EPs connected at the earth pin inside the plug, and the other ends held together with duct tape - so in parallel.
Then I plugged into the wall outlet where my system is connected.
Results?
Well, I'll just say that you may want to try it for yourself.
Cheers,
Alex
Last edited:
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