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Old 19th June 2011, 08:56 PM   #461
GeneZ is offline GeneZ  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
3 inches of any conductor when grounded to a lump of metal (such as a chassis) will have a quarter-wave resonance somewhere around 950MHz. The exact figure would depend on any dielectric loading from the shrink-wrap, and the Litz insulation, which would tend to reduce the frequency. Let's say 900MHz. Isn't that near a cell phone band?
In what way could this influence the sound if that were the case?
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Old 19th June 2011, 08:57 PM   #462
SimontY is offline SimontY  United Kingdom
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RFI is believed to make things sound worse. Seems pretty clear that's not what's really happening as it doesn't sound worse, and often sounds better.
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Old 19th June 2011, 09:00 PM   #463
BudP is offline BudP  United States
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DF96

Might I ask you to investigate true, individually insulated strand, Type 2 Litz wire? I have been told by an RF engineer that the individual rope lay twists and insulated strands of wire in those lay ups, constitute antenna shadowing and that the noted proximity rejection of this cable type arises from that.

Certainly there is no audible "radio source" style noise injection, regardless of how many speaker, amplifier, preamplifier and CD player loops are added to a system. On the other hand I have no idea what cell phone injected signal might sound like in an audio system, and I have a booster tower just one block from my home. That information might be useful, if it is going to be an audible effect. Unfortunately my oscilloscope is aimed at measuring the transformers I design and is old tech as far as frequency capability goes. Any light you can shed here would be helpful.

Bud
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Old 19th June 2011, 11:34 PM   #464
GeneZ is offline GeneZ  United States
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Originally Posted by SimontY View Post
RFI is believed to make things sound worse. Seems pretty clear that's not what's really happening as it doesn't sound worse, and often sounds better.

Thought so. We must have bad taste then.
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Old 20th June 2011, 03:28 AM   #465
wlowes is offline wlowes  Canada
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Originally Posted by GeneZ View Post
Click the image to open in full size.

.
Thanks for sharing the photo. I had seen it before and realized that I put the shrink wrap on the entire loop, not just on one side of the loop.

OK, so I thought what difference can it make ?? I pulled the 3 pieces of shrink wrap off and put it on each side of the loop as in the pic, and really expected no difference..

Oh my gosh!! Very noticible difference and for the better. It changed the sound stage. I had had an exagerated sense of depth prior to the change. Its still 3d but not now more forward and where it should be. Very natural. I believe it cleared up a little problem I was having with an overly pronounced upper frequency response.

The architecture of these things count. I use about a 4" 100x loop of 34 guage mgnet wire. On the neg of the speakers and on the star ground inside my DAC. Its a 6n2p tube output and the ground is on the plate power filter near the tubes and the RCA output.

very nice.. thanks Bud
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Old 21st June 2011, 10:22 AM   #466
UnixMan is offline UnixMan  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimontY View Post
RFI is believed to make things sound worse. Seems pretty clear that's not what's really happening as it doesn't sound worse, and often sounds better.
Obviously the idea is that they may actually reduce the amount of RF noise affecting the audio circuit.

How? there may be many ways.

The loop(s) may work as notch filter(s) on the line(s) where they are attached to, effectively "absorbing" (filtering) RF noise.

Or perhaps the loop(s) "inject" some picked-up RF noise on one "side" of the circuit (ground) balancing out the RF noise picked up by another "side" of the circuit, thus effectively cancelling (part of) the noise from the circuit operation.

Anyway (if there really is any real, sensible effect from this tweak), the "RFI tuning" effect seems to be the only reasonable explanation proposed so far (sorry Bud, but the "electron pool" idea is just plain pseudoscience nonsense).

As suggested, the tweak "optimization" instructions does indeed sound a lot like the act of empirically tuning RF resonance(s) and Q factor.
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Old 21st June 2011, 12:27 PM   #467
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Or perhaps the loop(s) "inject" some picked-up RF noise on one "side" of the circuit (ground) balancing out the RF noise picked up by another "side" of the circuit, thus effectively cancelling (part of) the noise from the circuit operation.

It works like pine needles do to RF. the tuning frequency of the antenna is shunt to ground and thus, attenuating the surrounding radiated area by that frequency. Upper and lower harmonics are attenuated in porportion but more elememts grounded in the array increase bandwidth response of the RF radiation attenuator.
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Old 21st June 2011, 02:11 PM   #468
BigE is offline BigE  Canada
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I have some incredibly thin litz. I think each strand is 52 gauge, and I believe there are 32 of them. All in silk I believe (could be cotton).

How thick a bundle should this be? Should the completed gauge of 18 awg? From the photos, all insulation should be removed correct?

This is a very interesting looking tweak. I shall try it.
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Old 21st June 2011, 04:20 PM   #469
GeneZ is offline GeneZ  United States
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I took them off my amp and speakers the other night and a warmth that had disappeared returned to the sound. The jury is out on these. It might be I do not have the right configuration.
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Old 24th June 2011, 02:12 AM   #470
GeneZ is offline GeneZ  United States
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I took them off my amp and speakers the other night and a warmth that had disappeared returned to the sound. The jury is out on these. It might be I do not have the right configuration.

Or, it might be because of the hour of the day I am listening. There are so many variables involved.
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