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Old 17th June 2011, 07:53 AM   #441
GeneZ is offline GeneZ  United States
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Originally Posted by BudP View Post
I would use the third one and cut it to a weak tea color with 99% pure isopropyl alcohol. This will ablate the coating on 100% of the wires in coated Litz wire.
Thank you, sir. I shall order it.

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True type 2 can be told by there being three twisted bundles that make up the whole twisted bundle. Type 1 Litz is just a large twisted bundle. The reason for using the stuff is it is a low proximity effect conductor. Takes laying it across a power transformer core before it will pick up anything or be affected by external capacitive coupling to unwanted substances, like Nylon carpet etc.
The one I have in front of me measures about ten gauge on a wire size template. It has five bundles.
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If your Litz has cotton selving on it that's great! If you have the equivalent of around 18 gauge solid core in circular mils then use very short pieces of shrink tube, like 3 pcs 0.6" long for a 6 inch long piece of wire, folded into a loop and soldered together. If you look on 6 moons for the review of Ground Control one of the "individuals" decided to cut one open and show how it was made, for free. I don't have anything good to say about that person, but I don't bother cursing idiots either, knowing they just cannot help themselves. In any event you will see quite clearly how they are made.
Here we go...

Click the image to open in full size.

Could not be as simple as looping some litz, could it? Darn! That would be easy. So, its to be one long continuous single wire that is looped for it to work. Doesn't soldering one end of the loop break up the single strand effect?

I suppose if looks are not important its OK to be left unwrapped and left in a circular configuration? Or, is making it into a straight tail a needed part of its effect? I can see why for commercial reasons he would want to wrap that up to look straight and neat.

Thanks again! Gene

.

Last edited by GeneZ; 17th June 2011 at 08:20 AM.
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Old 17th June 2011, 08:07 AM   #442
GeneZ is offline GeneZ  United States
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Since the Ground Control is to go on the negative terminal? I have what I believe may be a pertinent question. One that I have wondered about in the past, but never saw it as a need to know issue.

On my DAC there is a polarity reversal switch. Before going with the DAC, I used to reverse the polarity at the speaker terminals if it was called for. I find that with my present set up polarity reversal is needed. I believe it accomplishes that by adding an extra op amp into the circuit to give it an odd number of op's.

Now.. If the polarity switch of of the DAC has been set to reverse polarity? Does that mean that the amp outputs now see a reversed order, and is working as if I had reversed the speaker wires? Negative becomes as the positive, etc? Something tells me it does not work that way. But? If these loops are needed to be on the negative terminal of the amp and speakers? It looks like its finally time to get a definitive answer to that question. Would you know how that works? Would I need to place the loop now on the positive terminal?

Thanks again.. Gene

Last edited by GeneZ; 17th June 2011 at 08:17 AM.
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Old 17th June 2011, 08:33 AM   #443
GeneZ is offline GeneZ  United States
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Another interesting thread on the Ground Control.


Click the image to open in full size.


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Old 17th June 2011, 05:32 PM   #444
BudP is offline BudP  United States
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The phase of the signal arriving is not important. Regardless of the signal phase, the components still work the same way. There is still a charge between signal source and load, on the plus side, and in typical audio systems, no charge between load and ground. It is this lack of electrons on the negative side and typically, an uncontrolled mess of bimetallic connections and unknown and usually anti-audio dielectric materials, that strip backside of the wave form information from the emitted signal.

The loop of Litz wire does not have to be continuous. Made into a soldered end to soldered end loop, it is still an unterminated wave guide and signal will ring in it just fine. Even better when a bit of triboelectric "stiction" is provided to keep as many orbits in the copper filled as possible. Electrons seethe and we want them to seethe here, to increase the chances of the signal finding an electron, during the stasis moment while vector is changing, near a dielectric material that will not reject low level signal elements. Since this is such a "friendly" environment, compared to the impedance to ground, both electrons and signal will find their way into the loop. A more complete signal will be pulled back out of the loop, to provide the back half of the wave form information, regardless of the phase of the signal with regard to the original source, in some unknown land across the seas, through time.....

Bud
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Old 17th June 2011, 05:35 PM   #445
SimontY is offline SimontY  United Kingdom
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That reads like poetry

Still have pigtails on my mids and I'm sure they're doing their thing, allowing the clarity and coherence to shine, important as my mids do 80hz - 6khz

Simon
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Old 17th June 2011, 06:57 PM   #446
GeneZ is offline GeneZ  United States
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Originally Posted by BudP View Post
The loop of Litz wire does not have to be continuous. Made into a soldered end to soldered end loop, it is still an unterminated wave guide and signal will ring in it just fine.

That means I can simply tin two ends of a length of litz. Solder the ends together, and it will accomplish that same as winding that loop from a single wire?

I was thinking of tinning two ends of about 8-12 inches of litz, and then soldering the ends together. Making a litz bracelet. I have some old Aprature banana plugs look like this.


Click the image to open in full size.


Before soldering the ends together I would put the litz through the hole, and then solder the ends together. I would make sure that the tinned section makes contact with the metal screw down.

Would that work?

Will I still need some shrink wrap placed like in the picture in 6 Moons? Is that shrink wrap (from what I understand) essential? Or, am I asking too many wrong questions?

Thank you, Gene
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Old 17th June 2011, 08:48 PM   #447
BudP is offline BudP  United States
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Questions are fine, plan is good, one loop per plug. Shrink tube is VERY helpful but don't make the pieces longer than 0.6" and no more than three and if you have too much high frequency boost slit two of the pieces lengthwise.... that's right, down their length, preferably after shrinking them and with a roller blade razor knife, so you don't cut the wires, probably. Once you get proficient you can actually tune the things to suit specific drivers, something I do for the expensive drivers folks from around the world send me for EnABL treatment, not that there are hundreds by any means.

Bud
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Old 17th June 2011, 09:08 PM   #448
GeneZ is offline GeneZ  United States
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Originally Posted by BudP View Post
Questions are fine, plan is good, one loop per plug. Shrink tube is VERY helpful but don't make the pieces longer than 0.6" and no more than three and if you have too much high frequency boost slit two of the pieces lengthwise.... that's right, down their length, preferably after shrinking them and with a roller blade razor knife, so you don't cut the wires, probably. Once you get proficient you can actually tune the things to suit specific drivers, something I do for the expensive drivers folks from around the world send me for EnABL treatment, not that there are hundreds by any means.
So, shrink tubing acts like a treble control with the loop. Does that also apply to the wires inside the speaker running from the crossover? If I ran litz to the tweeters, and the litz was completely covered by shrink tubing? That can alter the high end response? Or, does that only apply to the way the loop works?

This is better than science fiction!

Thank you, Gene
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Old 18th June 2011, 01:23 AM   #449
BudP is offline BudP  United States
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Shrink tubing acts like a color or chromeance control in a TV. It changes phase subtly and then drastically. When the sound field is vertical from your listening spot, without overhang or lay back in the illusion of the presentation, you have just a little bit too much un-slit to slit. We are adding information to an area not usually dealt with and this information "fills out" the presentation, but it doesn't make high frequencies rise, so much as it brings them forward in the illusion of 3D space, and then into your lap. Lousy dancer too.

Bud
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Old 18th June 2011, 02:22 AM   #450
GeneZ is offline GeneZ  United States
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Originally Posted by BudP View Post
Shrink tubing acts like a color or chromeance control in a TV. It changes phase subtly and then drastically. When the sound field is vertical from your listening spot, without overhang or lay back in the illusion of the presentation, you have just a little bit too much un-slit to slit. We are adding information to an area not usually dealt with and this information "fills out" the presentation, but it doesn't make high frequencies rise, so much as it brings them forward in the illusion of 3D space, and then into your lap. Lousy dancer too.

Bud
I have a pair of older B&W Rock Solids that I rewired. Sounds like if I remove the shrink wrap from the tweeter wires ( wired with litz) that the high end emphasis I am hearing may diminish. It did have a 3D effect that I found novel and exciting in a way. But, it could wear on me after a time. It was interesting, but not real.

Typical polymer jackets speaker wires are wrapped in do not have the same effect?

Hmmmmmmm. And, thank you.

Gene
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