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Old 8th June 2007, 05:05 AM   #11
ssmith is offline ssmith  France
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Default Re: using silver-plated copper hook-up wires

Quote:
Originally posted by jarthel


I'm just concern that the amp might sound "bright".


Have to confess to having browsed through audio asylum too on the same question..... but just when you start to get paranoid -- a breath of fresh air from this place....
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Old 8th June 2007, 08:18 AM   #12
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I also use silver plated copper wire with teflon insulation, but buy this from RS components in the UK (www.rswww.com).

I believe the insulation makes far more difference than the conductor, and the silver plating is used primarily to allow teflon to be applied without much conductor oxidation occuring. Teflon needs to be applied at a higher temperature than other insulations, and bare copper would oxidise at this temperature.

Not that it will make much difference, but doesn't silver oxide conduct? Copper oxide doesn't so oxidation of silver plated conductors is less of a problem.... I could be wrong....
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Old 8th June 2007, 09:50 AM   #13
ssmith is offline ssmith  France
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Quote:
Originally posted by sharpi31
I could be wrong....
yet what you say makes perfect sense
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Old 8th June 2007, 10:51 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by SY


The net result may sound better, but I've not done any testing I could rely on.

What are you waiting for? Too busy "testing" wine?


I have done sufficient testing to know for certain i'll never use silver plated copper, especially stranded. It's intolerably bright.

Yeah, i know i've been brainwashed by snake oil salesmen. Or by listening.
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Old 8th June 2007, 10:57 AM   #15
SY is offline SY  United States
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Or sociology. Don't forget sociology.

Or maybe you're right, but it's just less evident to me than the other distortions of hifi which drive me crazy. Like I said, I have no good evidence.
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Old 8th June 2007, 12:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by SY

Or maybe you're right, but it's just less evident to me than the other distortions of hifi which drive me crazy.

Talking of which, i went through a recent experience which has little to do with silver plated wire but befits a similar audience.

In short i removed an opamp from the signal chain and sat down for a listen. The change was far more pronounced than expected, especially taking into account that the opamp in question was a LM4562 fed from a Jung regulator with BGs.

Amazingly extended highs, more dynamics but curiously weaker bass. After a lot of headscratching i decided the new sound simply wasn't better. It only then dawned on me that the DUT was not at its usual position on the rack but in order to facilitate easy soldering i had moved it onto a metal speaker stand.

As soon as i put it back on top of the rack the sound went back to normal. The "amazing" highs disappeared, the bass came back, etc. Now i found it difficult to hear the absence of the opamp. It was audible but far from obvious.

The fact that equipment support can have such frighful effect on the perceived sound is just another reminder of the difficulties and dangers of subjective testing. But until someone figures a way to measure these things...
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Old 8th June 2007, 12:58 PM   #17
SY is offline SY  United States
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I'd be looking very carefully at shielding and RF pickup.
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Old 8th June 2007, 02:07 PM   #18
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" ... I use it because its nice to work with and my power amps get hot so having the teflon insulator helps alot. ..."

Ditto that! ... and it makes for great conversation at the cocktail parties ...
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Old 8th June 2007, 06:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by analog_sa
In short i removed an opamp from the signal chain and sat down for a listen. The change was far more pronounced than expected, especially taking into account that the opamp in question was a LM4562 fed from a Jung regulator with BGs.

Amazingly extended highs, more dynamics but curiously weaker bass. After a lot of headscratching i decided the new sound simply wasn't better. It only then dawned on me that the DUT was not at its usual position on the rack but in order to facilitate easy soldering i had moved it onto a metal speaker stand.... snip
I wonder, before you chopped out the op-amp in question, did you check the circuit to see why that op-amp was included in the first place? If it was part of a frequency shaping/equalizing network it would be no surprise that things sounded different without the op-amp. Even if it were simply a wide bandwidth buffer, I would not be surprised that things sounded different. If it didn't sound different after removing the op-amp, what would you have proved? How many manufacturers throw in extra op-amps just to jack the cost of the equipment up?

I find it interesting that you miss the big lesson of the whole exercise which is that the engineers who designed the thing included the op-amp for a reason, certainly a very good one, and instead you focus on a probably imagined effect of the metal stand on which the circuit was resting.

It's like randomly pulling parts off your car's engine and noting that mysteriously, the performance changed and not for the better, but gosh, for some reason the power windows seem to work a little smoother.

This sort of silliness is what keeps the $1000 power cord sellers in business.

I_F
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Old 8th June 2007, 07:09 PM   #20
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I have a question; what property of wire causes brightness? Less inductance? Interesting topic, i wish i could measure this effect.
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