Which one to choose....

[solesinger]

Hi everyone, my first post

I am looking to purchase a new PA system... but I'm stuck on how to choose between the two. I made the big mistake of selling my old system, now I want to get back into gigging, I miss it too much. I wasn't overly happy with the sound from the previous system, Allen & Heath Mixer with Mackie SRM450 V2 speakers (the latter being the main issue I think) - so yeh, this is where I'm at !

I'm looking for a nice rounded bass sound, not thud thud thud, with excellent reproduction - solo vocalist performing swing and soul with background music in the interval. Also, portability is a bonus, I'm getting on a bit

Looking to hook up a nice Shure Beta 87 radio mic or Senheisser equivalent and I'm a bit unsure on the mixer - is Analogue OK if it has a decent effects bank and if so, what am I looking for? OR do I need to go digital - what's the difference in sound quality? Is it worth the extra money??

OK, so out of these two, which would you choose, and why


1) FBT Vertus CS1000 system Compact line array integrated system 600W + 400W RMS 129 dB SPL DUAL SYSTEM £2638

OR

2) RCF EVOX 12 Active Line Array Compact PA System | PMT Online again, DUAL SYSTEM £3000

Many thanks for all your help.

 

[JonSnell Electronic]

First thing to consider is how deep are your pockets.
A Bets 87 radio mic system, Allen and Heath analogue mixing desk and a pair of 15" Mackie Thump with maybe sub unit for extra power is a good goal to look for.
Nexo is the best but expensive! Used at many large festivals as FOH and powered with six Crown VZ5000 amps it is great!


Your examples are not bad but for the money look at the Bose range, you will need nothing else.

 

[solesinger]

First thing to consider is how deep are your pockets.
A Bets 87 radio mic system, Allen and Heath analogue mixing desk and a pair of 15" Mackie Thump with maybe sub unit for extra power is a good goal to look for.
Nexo is the best but expensive! Used at many large festivals as FOH and powered with six Crown VZ5000 amps it is great!


Your examples are not bad but for the money look at the Bose range, you will need nothing else.

Thanks for your input... I had the Mackie and it was very muddy mid range, I'm looking around the £3k mark money wise, that's why I'm looking at those two options.

I prefer the Evox as it's portable with the speakers slotting into the sub unit and wheel off on the wheels However, I know that FBT is an excellent company... also, from what I gather, items made in Italy are the best? But now many companies are scrimping by having them made in other areas and the quality is not as good?? Don't know if anyone can clarify this and whether it pertains to either FBT or RCF??

So you think an Allen & Heath analogue mixer is better than a digital and has the better effects processor than other mixers?

Thanks again... I know it's a lot to think about and questions to answer, but I want to make sure I make the right choice and then go and try them out somewhere...

Cheers.

 

[chris661]

First thing to consider is how deep are your pockets. A Bets 87 radio mic system, Allen and Heath analogue mixing desk and a pair of 15" Mackie Thump with maybe sub unit for extra power is a good goal to look for. Nexo is the best but expensive! Used at many large festivals as FOH and powered with six Crown VZ5000 amps it is great!

Your examples are not bad but for the money look at the Bose range, you will need nothing else.

Not sure I agree with much of this.

I cannot, in good conscience, recommend Mackie Thumps. Particularly the 15"s. Honestly, they sound awful. They made Guns 'N' Roses sound like the guitar was missing entirely. Might be fine for boom-tizz DJ types, though.

I've listened to most of the Bose range. The L1 doesn't live up to the hype - there's a big gap between the mid-high drivers and the sub, and even their latest tops (12" + 8x 2"s) weren't great - very forward in the 2kHz range when on-axis, and fall off too quickly with a couple of steps to the side.

Solesinger, where abouts in the UK are you? Give me a shout if you're nearby - link's below.

I'd look at the RCF Evox range - it has a good reputation. However, I personally haven't heard a column + sub system that I'd want to spend money on (so far, I've listened to the Bose systems and the EV one). I'd probably go for 8-10" tops over 12-15" subs.

Digital desks might be worth a look. These days, the quality is fine. You get a lot of flexibility - compressors, endless FX, EQs, etc, plus you get tablet control which is very handy. If it's literally just you singing with a backing track, though, most digital desks will have more channels than you'll need, but you'll still have to pay for them. The choice there is yours.

Don't worry too much about the quality of the FX on a given desk. Any half-decent desk will have usable FX, and in my experience reverb etc should be added as the last 5% of the sound, like the last bit of seasoning on a meal.

HTH Chris

 

[Rademakers]

The EVOX 12 is a pretty decent stab at a small PA system near Hifi-quality. I think it can have similar or greater perceived output as the Mackie but with better quality. I haven't heard it but component wise it's right.

It has 8 x 4" for mid/high, which is roughly 440 cm^2 radiating surface (Sd) per top, that's over double of what the 6 x 3" of the FBT will have. The Mackie has about 550 cm^2 Sd but the addition of the 15" sub will more than make up for that.

The Sd of 8 x 4" is more than a 10" top and about equal to a 2 x 8" top.

The FBT system has a 12" bass cabinet, with a 2.5" voice coil, which screams "limited performance" to me. The EVOX 12 has a 15" bass cabinet with a 3" voice coil, which is exactly what you want to match the top.

Johan

 

[conanski]

Not sure I agree with much of this. <snip>

+1 on all of that. I owned a set of Mackie Thumps(12" version) and while I thought they sounded decent they both died without ever being abused so I can't recommend them. For a solo musician an analog mixer would likely be easier to use, you can reach for a fader or knob and make an adjustment with only a momentary glance but with a tablet based digital you often have step through menues which requires more time and concentration.

I have not heard either speaker system mentioned but I have heard some other stick systems including the Turbo IP2000. These things have a place and can sound decent, I thought the Turbo system sounded pretty good but it's not quite the same as a traditional PA speaker, sounded a bit like one of those BBE maximizers was always engaged.. I think that is a byproduct of all those drivers firing away in the same direction creating some comb filtering. For gigs at moderate sound levels where wide coverage is desired these are a good tool, but when pushed the sound falls apart quickly. To that end I'd suggest buying 1 better system than 2 mid level.

 

[solesinger]

For some reason it ate my previous reply

OK, thanks to all for your responses, my thoughts were the RCF (having used them before on a hire basis) but also know the FBT has a good rep.

I think the nearest place to demo is Portsmouth so I'll get on and arrange that.

The key thing for me (as I get older) is portability and the Evox 12 has that, it never seems right working with one sub and one mid/top, hence opting for a pair of them

Re the mixer, I've had an A&H Zed 60 12 fx before and it was OK, I only need 6 channels max, but a good FX processor for larger venues and depth would be good - any other options for a budget of around £350-£400?

Thanks again for all your comments, much appreciated.

 

[chris661]

What sort of venue sizes do you want this system to cover?

I'd consider buying something that'll cover 90% of your use cases, and then rent for the really big gigs.
That way, you're not paying (and carrying) extra capabilty that won't be used often.

Chris

 

[solesinger]

What sort of venue sizes do you want this system to cover?

I'd consider buying something that'll cover 90% of your use cases, and then rent for the really big gigs.
That way, you're not paying (and carrying) extra capabilty that won't be used often.

Chris

Totally agree - most of them will be for 100 people etc, but on the odd occasion it will be for larger, the bonus of active systems of course, just add extra and plug them in