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Running 3 iNukes off Bluetooth/3.5 MM
Running 3 iNukes off Bluetooth/3.5 MM
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Old 9th February 2018, 12:11 AM   #11
Mitch04 is offline Mitch04  United States
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Location: South Dakota
Quote:
Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
Mitch,

1) The NU4-6000 inputs are 10kohm unbalanced, 20kohm balanced, in either case Y's should not be a problem with each side of the MB15b driving 4 channels. You can select "mono" on the "mode switch" to connect a pair of inputs and use half the "Y" cords. Note that "Bridge" is different than "mono".
I do not know what the 10kohm unbalanced, 20kohm balanced means, but I'm understanding that the excessive amount of splitters isn't so bad with the MB15b?
2)Pan is short for "panorama", bringing up level on one side while reducing it on the other- you can do that with the gain (volume) controls on your amplifiers.
Makes sense, I was already doing that if I was working in close proximity to a speaker
3)"Gain" is an increase in level, for instance -10 dB to +4 dB is a gain of 14 dB.
A +3 dB gain in level doubles power, a 10 dB increase is a x10 increase in power.
It takes about a 10 dB increase (gain) in SPL to "sound" twice as loud.
Your amplifier has input LEDs that will indicate -24dB, -12dB, -6dB and 0dB (maximum power/voltage/limit).
The NU4-6000 amp puts out about 60 volts/440 watts into 8 ohms when the top red light (0dB) ignites, about 4 times (+6dB) more power than your "floor standers" are rated for ;^).
I knew the first part, but did not know that the LEDs had an actual meaning to them. I have my floor standers turned down considerably,
they never get close to the red lights. The subwoofer amplifier on the other hand....
I feel like this is part of the "ah ha" moment, but I'm not quite there yet.

4)Gain is measured in decibels (dB), "deci" meaning 10, "Bell" named after Alexander Graham Bell, inventor of the telephone and the basis of modern sound convention.
Amplifiers provide voltage gain, .775 volts (0dBu) input to one channel of the NU4-6000 results in about 60 volts output.
Again, I feel this is key to understanding what I'm trying to learn, but it just isn't quite clicking yet.
5)In the Bluetooth/phone/laptop, the signals are digital, then converted to analog somewhere. 0dBFS would be the "full scale" maximum signal, everything is attenuated (reduced, cut, gain lowered) beneath 0dBFS, so there is not any "amplification" going on as there would be in an low level analog signal such as a microphone, a tape head, or a turntable cartridge being pre-amplified from -60 dB all the way to a nominal "-10" "consumer" level or a "+4" "professional" level.
So, out of my phone its digital....then through the bluetooth receiver it's digital...then the Rolls is converting it to analog and amplifying it to +4 db?
6)No, you're just in South Dakota- though found that feeling common there ;^).
It's definitely harder to find someone with the knowledge and desire to teach such things around here!

Art
I would like to add that this is definitely the type of post I was looking for. I'm slowly starting to understand. I may do the splitter, it seems like an easy way to adjust each channel and just keep things a bit cleaner.
Would I still benefit from the Rolls "amplifier" or will the splitter do that with the ability to adjust gains?

If you didn't use the rolls amplifier or a splitter, would the power amplifier still be able to use the signal coming out of the bluetooth or would it not be able to amplify the bluetooth signal? Maybe I'm still missing something...
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Old 9th February 2018, 07:30 PM   #12
ndcraig is offline ndcraig
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Originally Posted by Mitch04 View Post
I would like to add that this is definitely the type of post I was looking for. I'm slowly starting to understand. I may do the splitter, it seems like an easy way to adjust each channel and just keep things a bit cleaner.
Would I still benefit from the Rolls "amplifier" or will the splitter do that with the ability to adjust gains?

If you didn't use the rolls amplifier or a splitter, would the power amplifier still be able to use the signal coming out of the bluetooth or would it not be able to amplify the bluetooth signal? Maybe I'm still missing something...
There's a possibility it may not have enough output even at full volume to drive the amplifiers to their full output.
I cannot find the needed spec online for what voltage sensitivity the amp has, nor is their any accurate output level specs for the Logitech device.
So I would recommend using that Rolls device.

-And you shouldn't have any issues splitting the XLR line outputs 4-ways.

My "shop rig" is a collection of all my lesser-used gear (concert PA) so lots of older small amps running multiple tri-amped speakers. I haven't looked in a while but I'm probably splitting my XLR crossover outputs more times than you are and there's no issues.
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Old 9th February 2018, 08:02 PM   #13
weltersys is offline weltersys  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch04 View Post
1) Would I still benefit from the Rolls "amplifier" or will the splitter do that with the ability to adjust gains?
2)If you didn't use the rolls amplifier or a splitter, would the power amplifier still be able to use the signal coming out of the bluetooth or would it not be able to amplify the bluetooth signal? Maybe I'm still missing something...
3)I do not know what the 10kohm unbalanced, 20kohm balanced means, but I'm understanding that the excessive amount of splitters isn't so bad with the MB15b?
4)So, out of my phone its digital....then through the bluetooth receiver it's digital...then the Rolls is converting it to analog and amplifying it to +4 db?
Mitch,
1) Read the specification or user manual of the "splitter" to determine it's capabilities.
2) AFAIK, "Bluetooth" is a wireless transmission of a digital signal. Digital signals are "1"s and "0", they are not amplified per se.
3) An "excessive" amount of inputs driven from the Rolls outputs would result in an insufficient amount of gain to drive the amplifier input to full, .775 V, 0dBU. The Rolls 100 ohm max +12 dB unbalanced output probably could drive well over a dozen 10kOhm .775 V, 0dBU amplifier inputs past "full tilt boogie".
4) The Rolls is all analog, no analog to digital conversion.
1/8" TRS "headphone" outputs are analog, driven from an A/D (analog to digital) converter.

Study "Gain Structure" and "A/D", "D/A".
Good luck, have fun, use ear protection..!
Art
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Old 9th February 2018, 11:04 PM   #14
Mitch04 is offline Mitch04  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
Mitch,
3) An "excessive" amount of inputs driven from the Rolls outputs would result in an insufficient amount of gain to drive the amplifier input to full, .775 V, 0dBU. The Rolls 100 ohm max +12 dB unbalanced output probably could drive well over a dozen 10kOhm .775 V, 0dBU amplifier inputs past "full tilt boogie".
So, being that I'm able to drive my amplifiers until the red LED comes one, I should be able to assume that the Rolls is sufficient,
correct?

4) The Rolls is all analog, no analog to digital conversion.
1/8" TRS "headphone" outputs are analog, driven from an A/D (analog to digital) converter.

Study "Gain Structure" and "A/D", "D/A".

Will do!

Good luck, have fun, use ear protection..!
Art
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Old 10th February 2018, 03:02 AM   #15
Mitch04 is offline Mitch04  United States
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Alright, I'm starting to (cough) understand. My phone is creating a digital signal, sending it via Bluetooth to my Bluetooth adapter, which converts it to an analog signal. The analog signal goes into my Rolls, where I can adjust the gain to my (future) splitter, which will allow more gain adjustment and split the signal to my amplifiers.

My questions that have come from the latest learning are this...

A. The Bluetooth adapter is my digital to analog converter. Is there any gain involved in this process?
B. I have a Steve Meade Designs Digital Distortion Meter. Could I use this to set gains step by step? IE, play test track and turn up Rolls until clipping is detected, turn back a bit, then move on to my amp lifters and do the same?

I feel like I'm getting closer...
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Old 10th February 2018, 03:03 AM   #16
Mitch04 is offline Mitch04  United States
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Also, can a digital signal coming out of my phone or laptop ever be distorted or clip? Or is it only analog signals that clip?
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Old 10th February 2018, 03:13 AM   #17
Mitch04 is offline Mitch04  United States
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More questions...

The splitter knops show +15 db on the knob, would this mean it's able to boost the signal 15db on each channel? I can't find any tech specs.
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Old 11th February 2018, 07:16 PM   #18
globalplayer is offline globalplayer  Germany
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Yes and yes.
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Old 12th February 2018, 02:28 PM   #19
Mitch04 is offline Mitch04  United States
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Originally Posted by globalplayer View Post
Yes and yes.
To my A&B questions, or the 2 "after posts"? Sorry, lots of questions!
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Old 12th February 2018, 04:32 PM   #20
ICG is offline ICG  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch04 View Post
Also, can a digital signal coming out of my phone or laptop ever be distorted or clip?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch04 View Post
Or is it only analog signals that clip?
No. But the analog signal can clip too. And if the digital part clips, the clipping is in every single part of the chain too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch04 View Post
The splitter knops show +15 db on the knob, would this mean it's able to boost the signal 15db on each channel?
Yes.
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