Looking to add a portable sub to my daughters active DJ rig and would prefer not to drag out a Keystone. The kids are definitely into trap and low freq stuff so I think 30hz is needed. I realize this is tall order and I am giving up SPL but curious how the wise minds here would tackle. I am partial to the teeny tiny PA sub http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/272492-teeny-tiny-pa-15-subwoofer-12.html#post4939160 but curious if I could scale up to an 18" or maybe some kinda PPSL with a pair of 12" alpines. Thanks in advance.
Zwiller,
It's entirely possible that narrowing the port on the Tiny 15" sub, port tuning will drop down to the low-30s, and should still give a good kick. A quick look at Hornresp suggests it's possible, but you'll need a lot of EQ to get flat down to 30Hz, and port chuffing might be an issue.
As they are, they sound "big", like a good double-18". While 40Hz doesn't sound that impressive, you might find that a loud 40Hz is better than a quieter 30Hz.
How does their music sound on the Keystone?
The Tiny15 makes no claim to keep up on SPL, but LF extension should be similar enough to see if 40Hz will be enough.
Chris
It's entirely possible that narrowing the port on the Tiny 15" sub, port tuning will drop down to the low-30s, and should still give a good kick. A quick look at Hornresp suggests it's possible, but you'll need a lot of EQ to get flat down to 30Hz, and port chuffing might be an issue.
As they are, they sound "big", like a good double-18". While 40Hz doesn't sound that impressive, you might find that a loud 40Hz is better than a quieter 30Hz.
How does their music sound on the Keystone?
The Tiny15 makes no claim to keep up on SPL, but LF extension should be similar enough to see if 40Hz will be enough.
Chris
Thanks for playing along guys! After successfully doing a KS build I feel that I can justify some of the premium drivers and I see the benefit now.
2ft3 is probably a good starting point. This is definitely B rig, indoor 50-100 people stuff like high school party/graduation but not a major event. The kind of events where you probably would not take a sub but with today's music you need to I think. I got a STEAL on some Behringer B212s and looking for something portable and I can't seem to fall in love with the active subs... I think the DIY designs here are better.
The KS jams on the stuff... Total night club vibe in a large HS gym. I do think 40hz may work but I think I may need to hear it for myself. Your posts have been very helpful with the music references! Maybe a -10db 30hz box? How much more efficient would 40hz (-10db 30hz) be?
I have a lead on a set of Klipsch K301 and KP480. Think a KP480 would suffice?
2ft3 is probably a good starting point. This is definitely B rig, indoor 50-100 people stuff like high school party/graduation but not a major event. The kind of events where you probably would not take a sub but with today's music you need to I think. I got a STEAL on some Behringer B212s and looking for something portable and I can't seem to fall in love with the active subs... I think the DIY designs here are better.
The KS jams on the stuff... Total night club vibe in a large HS gym. I do think 40hz may work but I think I may need to hear it for myself. Your posts have been very helpful with the music references! Maybe a -10db 30hz box? How much more efficient would 40hz (-10db 30hz) be?
I have a lead on a set of Klipsch K301 and KP480. Think a KP480 would suffice?
To get the tuning down to 30Hz, you'd need to make the port go down to 100cm^2 at the narrowest point. That's going to be problematic for air velocities. You'd also drop about 8dB of output capability while using more excursion.
You'd need just under 3 of the 30Hz boxes to keep up with 1x 40Hz box.
An experiment for you - fire up Audacity (or Foobar2000) and add a 4th order highpass filter at 37Hz while listening on headphones. If you can live with the difference, I'd build the 40Hz box.
If you've got any music you'd like me to try out on these boxes before you build them, let me know and I'll try to squeeze a quick recording in at the next sound check.
Edit - no idea on those Klipsch boxes. They're not really high-power, and they're quite big for what they're getting out of them. If they're cheaper than a good 15", though, it might be worth going for a listen.
Chris
You'd need just under 3 of the 30Hz boxes to keep up with 1x 40Hz box.
An experiment for you - fire up Audacity (or Foobar2000) and add a 4th order highpass filter at 37Hz while listening on headphones. If you can live with the difference, I'd build the 40Hz box.
If you've got any music you'd like me to try out on these boxes before you build them, let me know and I'll try to squeeze a quick recording in at the next sound check.
Edit - no idea on those Klipsch boxes. They're not really high-power, and they're quite big for what they're getting out of them. If they're cheaper than a good 15", though, it might be worth going for a listen.
Chris
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Thanks ALOT for the cliff notes Chris. I am still a bit behind everyone here on theory. When you put it that way it's pretty much a no brainer but in my mind it was no where near 8db.
Hoping to get Dennis' thoughts on the Klipsch stuff since I see posts of his in the high efficiency forums. Guy wants $600 for all. Trying to get him to dump it but he bought new and I recall these well like $3-4k new. I thought I could drag out a sub for the odd job now and then.
I am not opposed to ALL active subs there certainly are some really good ones but the good boxes go well beyond the cost of DIY with a premium driver. IE all the local subs like Behringer/Mackie stuff is like -10db @ 45hz and I think that is a big sacrifice.
Hoping to get Dennis' thoughts on the Klipsch stuff since I see posts of his in the high efficiency forums. Guy wants $600 for all. Trying to get him to dump it but he bought new and I recall these well like $3-4k new. I thought I could drag out a sub for the odd job now and then.
I am not opposed to ALL active subs there certainly are some really good ones but the good boxes go well beyond the cost of DIY with a premium driver. IE all the local subs like Behringer/Mackie stuff is like -10db @ 45hz and I think that is a big sacrifice.
2ft3 is 8 cu ft (gross).
With dual 12s in a PPSL you can get about 101.5dB/2.83V/1M with the Dayton 295-120 woofers (about $100 each).
F3=40hz in a 4th order design, F3=27hz in a 6th order design.
2_zpsqlogiixd.png Photo by dkleitsch | Photobucket
I have a cut-list (somewhere) for the 40hz tuning.
With dual 12s in a PPSL you can get about 101.5dB/2.83V/1M with the Dayton 295-120 woofers (about $100 each).
F3=40hz in a 4th order design, F3=27hz in a 6th order design.
2_zpsqlogiixd.png Photo by dkleitsch | Photobucket
I have a cut-list (somewhere) for the 40hz tuning.
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The cheap subs don't sound as nice but realistically you will probably be the only one to notice. I just picked up an new EV EKX18sp and I have to say it sounds really good. It goes noticably lower than the Mackie SRM1801 that I also have but I don't know it it'll be any louder. Exceeding this performance in a box that is no bigger wouldn't be cheap, you would need a $300+ driver think B&C NBX or TBW, an amp capable of delivering 2000w with some good DSP for limiting and EQ, and then the box and hardware. If you don't spend $1000 after it's all said and done I'd be surprised.
@ conanski: Yes, I suppose we are own worst critics... First gig she did (we got a phone call to help as other guy was a no show) was last minute with one small box and no complaints for lack of 30Hz. LOL The Behringer VQ1500 would probably suffice. So I find out her next gig might be outdoors.... Haha.
@djk: Thanks. Any thoughts on Klipsch gear? Maybe I;m just freaking out that someone has this stuff near me. Never happens...
@wg_ski: Thanks, I thought these were EOL,
@djk: Thanks. Any thoughts on Klipsch gear? Maybe I;m just freaking out that someone has this stuff near me. Never happens...
@wg_ski: Thanks, I thought these were EOL,
I expect the Tiny15 loaded with a decent driver would happily take on the Klipsch subs you've mentioned. Just buying the subs is a lot less work, though, so it depends on your priorities.
PM me if you'd like me to try some music through the subs and I'll get a recording. YouTube links will do just fine so long as the bass is in the recording.
Chris
PM me if you'd like me to try some music through the subs and I'll get a recording. YouTube links will do just fine so long as the bass is in the recording.
Chris
As fate would have it I happened to see a demo VQ1800 at Sweetwater while digging for specs. $359 shipped. I pulled the trigger. Kinda cool, active matched system all plug and play ready for ipod/PC. Curious if the cable I got will work: headphone to xlr. Pseudo balanced. Really wish the sub had the multi input jacks. Seems like nowadays everything is pretty flexible but I remember how many headaches I had with mixing unbalanced and balanced gear in the past. Least we have system. Running the KS involves alot of switching gear out of the HT.
Thanks for the offer! I need to consult the mixtress for examples but I recall the name of one the artists she spins. I really do not care for this stuff but I saw it for my own eyes (and didn't really believe her) that the place went nuts for what she spins. KYLE - iSpy (feat. Lil Yachty) [Official Music Video] - YouTube
Thanks for the offer! I need to consult the mixtress for examples but I recall the name of one the artists she spins. I really do not care for this stuff but I saw it for my own eyes (and didn't really believe her) that the place went nuts for what she spins. KYLE - iSpy (feat. Lil Yachty) [Official Music Video] - YouTube
Sounds like you're all sorted. I'll give the music a try sometime.
Running it through Audacity, it looks like the bass drops to around 34Hz in places, but is much stronger at 38Hz. Looks like the main kick is more like 70Hz.
Looks like the 15"s would cover most of it, but getting the last few Hz would need something bigger.
If you come back to DIYing something, I think you'd find the 15"s a lot of fun, and I'd be happy to share build notes.
Chris
Running it through Audacity, it looks like the bass drops to around 34Hz in places, but is much stronger at 38Hz. Looks like the main kick is more like 70Hz.
Looks like the 15"s would cover most of it, but getting the last few Hz would need something bigger.
If you come back to DIYing something, I think you'd find the 15"s a lot of fun, and I'd be happy to share build notes.
Chris
I have Audacity and need to learn the higher functions. I didn't realize it did half of what you are doing with it.
Proof is in the pudding... It's not until we gig out will we know how this sub will perform. Spec wise it's -10db @ 40Hz max 124db. We'll see about that... I'm not looking to measure it, but just to find out if it does the job. Pretty convinced the Tiny 15 will trounce it in real life. I like having options. Thinking small gigs: active sub, medium gig where 2 active's would be used: Tiny15, large gig Keystone. HAppy I got the sub covered, now it's onto DJ PC and software, and small light rig.
Proof is in the pudding... It's not until we gig out will we know how this sub will perform. Spec wise it's -10db @ 40Hz max 124db. We'll see about that... I'm not looking to measure it, but just to find out if it does the job. Pretty convinced the Tiny 15 will trounce it in real life. I like having options. Thinking small gigs: active sub, medium gig where 2 active's would be used: Tiny15, large gig Keystone. HAppy I got the sub covered, now it's onto DJ PC and software, and small light rig.
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