Hi guys,
Before going further into this project, i'd like your opinions.
So let's save us time by saying the obvious: this project is a bit crazy. Being business-motivated, though, it helps having precise goals and not going too far into the full-throttle-crazyness...
Ok, bullet points style:
.: Stereo system, 4-way, DSP, class-D amps, high-efficiency drivers. So far, so good?
.: Here is where the crazy starts: Left channel enclosure will be a Mercedes Sprinter 2500 High Roof. Right channel enclosure will be another Mercedes Sprinter 2500 High Roof.
.: Obviously, the idea behind all that is to have a huge, fully autonomous, battery-powered, mobile sound system. I'm thinking electric car's refurbished lithium-ion batteries, something that could be recharged in any supercharger station. Worst case scenario: the good old car audio 12vdc plan, but i'd rather have the 36/48vdc lithium-battery way, if doable.
.: Back to the enclosures topic: subwoofers will be highly inspired by the car audio's SPL drag race era, but reversed this time: back doors opened that acts as a pair of huge horns, probably (hopefully) up to 200-250hz. I'm not exactly sure what will be needed here but probably few dozens of 12/15in drivers per sides.
.: Would be happy with outdoor low-end response down to 35hz but i'm really hoping for 30hz.
.: Huge towers for midbass/mid/tweeters will be mounted on-site, on top of both truck's roofs. Modular, lightweight structures. Probably aluminum, bamboo and stainless steel.
.: In-truck subwoofers enclosure(s) will need to be made in a fashion where mid/hi towers can fit during transportation. So either fixed along the walls or in modular cabinets that can be secured on truck's floor when on-site. Would prefer a fixed solution because it will be easier/faster to prepare the set-up.
.: Total height of each ''speakers'' from ground to top would be roughly 6 meters (20ft). That will need to cover for about 1000 people and approx. 10000 sq.ft. (1000 m²). Rock show SPL levels... and outdoor.
.: So, yeah, pro audio domain stuff but with a twist of hi-fi whenever possible... 4-way, fanless ICEpower amps, silently battery-powered, fullrange 10-octave of 10-octave-ish.
If you have any comments, recommendations, ideas, you are most welcome.
.
.
.
Here is the internal dimensions:
Before going further into this project, i'd like your opinions.
So let's save us time by saying the obvious: this project is a bit crazy. Being business-motivated, though, it helps having precise goals and not going too far into the full-throttle-crazyness...
Ok, bullet points style:
.: Stereo system, 4-way, DSP, class-D amps, high-efficiency drivers. So far, so good?
.: Here is where the crazy starts: Left channel enclosure will be a Mercedes Sprinter 2500 High Roof. Right channel enclosure will be another Mercedes Sprinter 2500 High Roof.
.: Obviously, the idea behind all that is to have a huge, fully autonomous, battery-powered, mobile sound system. I'm thinking electric car's refurbished lithium-ion batteries, something that could be recharged in any supercharger station. Worst case scenario: the good old car audio 12vdc plan, but i'd rather have the 36/48vdc lithium-battery way, if doable.
.: Back to the enclosures topic: subwoofers will be highly inspired by the car audio's SPL drag race era, but reversed this time: back doors opened that acts as a pair of huge horns, probably (hopefully) up to 200-250hz. I'm not exactly sure what will be needed here but probably few dozens of 12/15in drivers per sides.
.: Would be happy with outdoor low-end response down to 35hz but i'm really hoping for 30hz.
.: Huge towers for midbass/mid/tweeters will be mounted on-site, on top of both truck's roofs. Modular, lightweight structures. Probably aluminum, bamboo and stainless steel.
.: In-truck subwoofers enclosure(s) will need to be made in a fashion where mid/hi towers can fit during transportation. So either fixed along the walls or in modular cabinets that can be secured on truck's floor when on-site. Would prefer a fixed solution because it will be easier/faster to prepare the set-up.
.: Total height of each ''speakers'' from ground to top would be roughly 6 meters (20ft). That will need to cover for about 1000 people and approx. 10000 sq.ft. (1000 m²). Rock show SPL levels... and outdoor.
.: So, yeah, pro audio domain stuff but with a twist of hi-fi whenever possible... 4-way, fanless ICEpower amps, silently battery-powered, fullrange 10-octave of 10-octave-ish.
If you have any comments, recommendations, ideas, you are most welcome.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
.
.
.
Here is the internal dimensions:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
To jump into the specifics, i'd say i would be tempted to use Faital Pro drivers for the midbass, Radian CD for the mids and maybe RAAL 210-10D for the tweeters. But i'm not sure that's a good idea to use a ribbon tweeter for outdoor use... Or maybe foam/fabric protected ?
Subwoofers, again maybe Faital Pro or JL audio.
I'm not familiar with outdoor PA stuff, to be honest...
Subwoofers, again maybe Faital Pro or JL audio.
I'm not familiar with outdoor PA stuff, to be honest...
Move to PA systems.
It's an interesting idea, I've never seen this done in person, but have seen photos of old "Sound Vans" from 60 years ago or much earlier.
I think it's a great idea, but there are certainly some hurtles. Those are the basic questions that come to find. A lot of thought and planning now means a better system later.
- What are your goals? Or rather, what's the usage? You say 1000 people, that's a fair size crowd.
- Power. Outdoors you will need LOTS of power. 1000s of watts for "rock show levels". With no walls to contain and reflect to sound, it goes away fast. You know this, of course.
- Silent fanless amps? Won't make a bit of difference outside.
- Bass in a van. Those van walls are going to rattle like crazy! How do you plan to counter that? Tom Danley build a bass for NASA inside a shipping container. That's similar to what you plan.
- Speaking of Danley, I'd suggest doing your mid highs with a Danley product, or build your own Unity/Synergy horns. You will need to figure out licensing if you make them yourself. Great coverage for large venues.
- What about front fills?
- How will you connect to Front of House? You'll want some analog XLR connections, as well as DANTE and processing.
- Make a place to carry plywood. If you have to park on the grass, you will often be forced to be on plywood.
I think it's a great idea, but there are certainly some hurtles. Those are the basic questions that come to find. A lot of thought and planning now means a better system later.
Will be used on remote areas where mains power not available.
Also i'd like to avoid generators as much as possible. That's the idea: autonomous, battery-powered and if possible rechargeable at a supercharger station (they become more and more common).
OK, thanks for the clarification.
I still don't know it's intended use. At what type of event will you be playing music or other sounds to 150 or more people where there is no power? Maybe a Burning Man or other desert type "happening"?
Although I am now primarily a video guy, I've worked live sound events for over 40 years, many of them outside. The idea of the quick setup and integration is super cool, I just don't understand how or where it would be used.
Oh - stay away from ribbon tweeters for this, unless you plan to replace the ribbons after every show.
I still don't know it's intended use. At what type of event will you be playing music or other sounds to 150 or more people where there is no power? Maybe a Burning Man or other desert type "happening"?
Although I am now primarily a video guy, I've worked live sound events for over 40 years, many of them outside. The idea of the quick setup and integration is super cool, I just don't understand how or where it would be used.
Oh - stay away from ribbon tweeters for this, unless you plan to replace the ribbons after every show.
IMO, a trailer would be a lot more $ effective. Building the speakers directly into the van seems like:
1) a waste of a van (over specialisation)
2) a waste of boundary loading (the van is too high up)
Getting 3dB better LF due to ground loading would make your $ go a lot further.
This thread looks useful to you:
Poor Man's Matterhorn
...or stick wheels under something vaguely like this (my horn) Artichoke Horn
To quote weltersys (Art) from that thread:
Using a moderate excursion (around 6MM Xmax) single woofer on a huge straight horn covering 30 to 800 Hz could effortlessly (cleanly) do well in excess of 125 dB at one meter. With four drivers in the 20-100 Hz range you could jack that up by an easy 6 dB, and you would not get "dirty" complaints with 140 dB peaks.
This is also good to clone / milk ideas from:
SynTripP: 2-way 2-part Virtual Single Point Source Horn
I've seen this done to power a solar cinema here in Australia. The mains were nicely done Unity clones (I might have a photo somewhere), but I don't remember what was used for LF. The power came from a bank of normal deep cycle batteries.
The LF loading will suffer because the van doors aren't a good seal.
With a simple square box on a trailer, you could give it close-fitting barn doors, and get a lot better loading from them. It'd also be a lot easier to stack mid and HF components on top of a big ply box, than with a van.
And consider an outdoor concert audience. I suspect they are not sitting in any sort of sweet spot actively listening. Rather I'd wager they were dancing, socializing, etc with the music as a mood setter ambiance. I'd further wager not a one of them will leave the gig saying to a friend, "Did you notice the excellent sound staging? The separation of highs on the percussion was excellent."
many years ago I held annual parties on my 20 acres of farmland. One year I ran 800 feet of power wire out there and hauled a freaking juke box up the hill. By the time the 120v mains got there, the poor thing was running on a little over 90 volts. But the people loved it.
Point being, we don't really need to duplicate symphony hall.
many years ago I held annual parties on my 20 acres of farmland. One year I ran 800 feet of power wire out there and hauled a freaking juke box up the hill. By the time the 120v mains got there, the poor thing was running on a little over 90 volts. But the people loved it.
Point being, we don't really need to duplicate symphony hall.
unfortunately, you're probably right.
But that applies indoor as well, anywhere, isnt it?
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.