Hi people,
I have been asked by my summer camp to provide some pricing/ideas for a small PA system for 2 dining halls that roughly 200 max campers will use daily.
Requirements that have been requested are:
2 wall mounted speakers (active or passive)
1 Mixer
1 wireless mic setup
opportunity to connect phone/ipad for staff to connect music too (possibly bluetooth)
I have been trying to think the best way around setting up this system, but would like advice.
Would it be best to get passive speakers and buy a powered mixer from which to control everything from? Or go the other way and have active speakers that are connected to a unpowered mixer?
Any recommendations for either connection method?
Also any wireless Mics that people could recommend too?
And if there is an accessory that could be plugged into the mixer to control the music via bluetooth?
I have been asked by my summer camp to provide some pricing/ideas for a small PA system for 2 dining halls that roughly 200 max campers will use daily.
Requirements that have been requested are:
2 wall mounted speakers (active or passive)
1 Mixer
1 wireless mic setup
opportunity to connect phone/ipad for staff to connect music too (possibly bluetooth)
I have been trying to think the best way around setting up this system, but would like advice.
Would it be best to get passive speakers and buy a powered mixer from which to control everything from? Or go the other way and have active speakers that are connected to a unpowered mixer?
Any recommendations for either connection method?
Also any wireless Mics that people could recommend too?
And if there is an accessory that could be plugged into the mixer to control the music via bluetooth?
The choice between active and passive works like this:
DSP in modern powered speakers give by far the most performance per dollar in the low-end pro audio market segment. Speaker manufacturers can engineer the amps and DSP perfectly suited for the speaker that deliver performance that would otherwise take much more expensive rack amps and signal processors, not to mention skill in configuring it. Unless you're investing in a system you need to be flexible and scaleable for a wide variety of applications, powered/active speakers will deliver the best performance for the least money.
However, you must be able to run power to the speaker locations, and in most install locations an extension cord isn't acceptable. There's a good chance you'll be looking at expense to have an electrician run conduit to the speaker install locations. So while the portable DJ operation is at a big advantage with powered speakers, the person with the long-term installation can be hindered by local codes and bureaucracy, if not genuine safety issues. Codes tend to be much less restrictive about speaker wires than they are about electrical power lines.
So think about the location and what it's going to take to get power there.
Wall-mounting speakers isn't a job to be taken lightly. Speakers can weigh a lot, and more than enough to injure or kill someone if it falls on them. Wall-mounting usually entails less risk than flying them, but it still requires good engineering practices to rig them properly. Depending on the height and location and their weight, it's often well beyond a DIY project for a handyman. You might be alright if they're 15 lbs at shoulder-height, but that won't cover 200 people. When you start looking at putting 80 pound boxes 10' or more in the air, you can no longer afford to do it yourself with hardware from Home Depot.
The mixer and wireless mic is easy. Cheap electronics has made all that stuff abundant. Guitar Center/Sweetwater/Musiciansfriend etc. has boatloads of that stuff. Most powered speakers have a mixer for two channels built-in, but if you need more than two channels, just pick a mixer with the number of channels you need and remember you get what you pay for. Many powered speakers and compact mixers have bluetooth receivers, but the dongles to add that to anything are only $15.
Powered mixers are usually junk and when they break you have to throw away both the amp and mixer. If you have to go with passive speakers, get a compact mixer and separate rack-mount amp. That way when either breaks, you only have to replace one thing instead of both. Amps are often useful for far longer than mixers, which are often outgrown or outdated long before the amp becomes "old."
There's lots of wireless mic options too. Shure and Sennheiser are safe bets. Digital 2.4GHz mics are usually good for up to 50' and start around $400-500. If you need longer range than that, you're looking at UHF systems which start around the same price for analog, but are closer to $1000 for digital.
DSP in modern powered speakers give by far the most performance per dollar in the low-end pro audio market segment. Speaker manufacturers can engineer the amps and DSP perfectly suited for the speaker that deliver performance that would otherwise take much more expensive rack amps and signal processors, not to mention skill in configuring it. Unless you're investing in a system you need to be flexible and scaleable for a wide variety of applications, powered/active speakers will deliver the best performance for the least money.
However, you must be able to run power to the speaker locations, and in most install locations an extension cord isn't acceptable. There's a good chance you'll be looking at expense to have an electrician run conduit to the speaker install locations. So while the portable DJ operation is at a big advantage with powered speakers, the person with the long-term installation can be hindered by local codes and bureaucracy, if not genuine safety issues. Codes tend to be much less restrictive about speaker wires than they are about electrical power lines.
So think about the location and what it's going to take to get power there.
Wall-mounting speakers isn't a job to be taken lightly. Speakers can weigh a lot, and more than enough to injure or kill someone if it falls on them. Wall-mounting usually entails less risk than flying them, but it still requires good engineering practices to rig them properly. Depending on the height and location and their weight, it's often well beyond a DIY project for a handyman. You might be alright if they're 15 lbs at shoulder-height, but that won't cover 200 people. When you start looking at putting 80 pound boxes 10' or more in the air, you can no longer afford to do it yourself with hardware from Home Depot.
The mixer and wireless mic is easy. Cheap electronics has made all that stuff abundant. Guitar Center/Sweetwater/Musiciansfriend etc. has boatloads of that stuff. Most powered speakers have a mixer for two channels built-in, but if you need more than two channels, just pick a mixer with the number of channels you need and remember you get what you pay for. Many powered speakers and compact mixers have bluetooth receivers, but the dongles to add that to anything are only $15.
Powered mixers are usually junk and when they break you have to throw away both the amp and mixer. If you have to go with passive speakers, get a compact mixer and separate rack-mount amp. That way when either breaks, you only have to replace one thing instead of both. Amps are often useful for far longer than mixers, which are often outgrown or outdated long before the amp becomes "old."
There's lots of wireless mic options too. Shure and Sennheiser are safe bets. Digital 2.4GHz mics are usually good for up to 50' and start around $400-500. If you need longer range than that, you're looking at UHF systems which start around the same price for analog, but are closer to $1000 for digital.
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Available height can make a big difference because if you can get the speakers up high, they will cover a much larger area more evenly. If they're down low, they will blast the people close-by while not being loud enough for the people farthest away.
You also want to think about whether you need a sound stage so to speak. Does the sound need to come from a particular place in the room or does it matter? In a restaurant (this is a dining room), a distributed system is usually used with many small speakers spread throughout all the rooms. That won't deliver the right impression for a band on stage where we want the sound to come from the stage area, but it can work much better for ambient or background music.
The reason distributed systems work much better where a "stage" is not needed is because they're more independent of room acoustics. Whenever we have sound inside a room, we hear it two ways: direct and reflected. Direct sound comes straight from the source to our ears. Reflected sound goes from the source and reflects off the walls, ceiling, and floor before it reaches our ears. The clarity and intelligibility of the source is dependent on the direct-to-reflected ratio. If we hear only a little more direct sound than reflected, clarity and intelligibility suffers.
If you have one or two big PA speakers at one end of a room, the people directly on-axis of the speakers will have a better direct-to-reflected ratio, but everybody else, and that is most people will hear something that consists of less direct sound in proportion to the reflected. The less consideration given to speaker pattern control and room acoustics, the more severe this will be. If the acoustics of these rooms weren't designed as an auditorium, two speakers might not be the best solution.
If the rooms are highly reverberant as dining halls often are, you may be better off with a distributed system. If the primary purpose is for low-volume background music, look at a "commercial" sound system rather than a PA. This is the type of system you will find in restaurants and stores.
If you need higher SPL (loud) than background music, then you have to consider that people will hear speakers in more than one location. They'll hear the speaker nearest them, but also the next one over, and the next. Since sound takes longer to travel from the speakers farther away, it arrives later and it sounds like a monster truck ralley, ralley, ralley... If your audience is all oriented so that there is a front and back, you can use delay on the speakers in the rear so the sound from the front arrives at the same time it comes out the rear speakers.
If your goal involves a fairly high SPL (you want to crank up the music like kids would enjoy at a dance), then consider that the dining hall has very poor acoustics for this purpose. You would be much better off moving the PA outside. If you determine a PA-style system is what you need, you may want to stay flexible and start with tripod/poles for the speakers before you mount them on the wall. That way you can move them to alternate locations inside and out. Just be sure they're stable enough for the load you put on them, at a safe height and located so someone doesn't knock them over.
So consider whether you can get a speaker up high and pointed down to cover a large area directly with reasonably even coverage. Consider whether a distributed system would work better, whether it's a commercial/restaurant system or a PA with speakers on delay. Also consider alternatives to a room with poor acoustics if it's going to be loud.
You also want to think about whether you need a sound stage so to speak. Does the sound need to come from a particular place in the room or does it matter? In a restaurant (this is a dining room), a distributed system is usually used with many small speakers spread throughout all the rooms. That won't deliver the right impression for a band on stage where we want the sound to come from the stage area, but it can work much better for ambient or background music.
The reason distributed systems work much better where a "stage" is not needed is because they're more independent of room acoustics. Whenever we have sound inside a room, we hear it two ways: direct and reflected. Direct sound comes straight from the source to our ears. Reflected sound goes from the source and reflects off the walls, ceiling, and floor before it reaches our ears. The clarity and intelligibility of the source is dependent on the direct-to-reflected ratio. If we hear only a little more direct sound than reflected, clarity and intelligibility suffers.
If you have one or two big PA speakers at one end of a room, the people directly on-axis of the speakers will have a better direct-to-reflected ratio, but everybody else, and that is most people will hear something that consists of less direct sound in proportion to the reflected. The less consideration given to speaker pattern control and room acoustics, the more severe this will be. If the acoustics of these rooms weren't designed as an auditorium, two speakers might not be the best solution.
If the rooms are highly reverberant as dining halls often are, you may be better off with a distributed system. If the primary purpose is for low-volume background music, look at a "commercial" sound system rather than a PA. This is the type of system you will find in restaurants and stores.
If you need higher SPL (loud) than background music, then you have to consider that people will hear speakers in more than one location. They'll hear the speaker nearest them, but also the next one over, and the next. Since sound takes longer to travel from the speakers farther away, it arrives later and it sounds like a monster truck ralley, ralley, ralley... If your audience is all oriented so that there is a front and back, you can use delay on the speakers in the rear so the sound from the front arrives at the same time it comes out the rear speakers.
If your goal involves a fairly high SPL (you want to crank up the music like kids would enjoy at a dance), then consider that the dining hall has very poor acoustics for this purpose. You would be much better off moving the PA outside. If you determine a PA-style system is what you need, you may want to stay flexible and start with tripod/poles for the speakers before you mount them on the wall. That way you can move them to alternate locations inside and out. Just be sure they're stable enough for the load you put on them, at a safe height and located so someone doesn't knock them over.
So consider whether you can get a speaker up high and pointed down to cover a large area directly with reasonably even coverage. Consider whether a distributed system would work better, whether it's a commercial/restaurant system or a PA with speakers on delay. Also consider alternatives to a room with poor acoustics if it's going to be loud.
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I have some experience on the PA system fitted on shops. The main concern here is to have everything as simple and dependable as possible, at the lowest cost. The mainstream solution is a small mono PA mixer/amplifier unit with a few passive ceiling speakers, wired in parallel on a 100V line. We use B&W speakers for quality or Monacor for cheap. A brand-name entry level PA mixer/amplifier with 3 inputs is around 250 Euro here; a chinese one is around 120. You may even find them on Amazon. Some PA amplifiers have integrated FM radio and CD player but price is a lot higher. They all have at least one mic input, you may not need it for a wireless mic, but it is handy nevertheless. We are rarely asked for a wireless mic; on that instances we use Sennheiser. Tried with cheaper products but they all failed miserabily (interference with TV, or insufficient battery life, or they break in a few months).
On very small shops, the amp and the speakers are common home-theater units. I don't recomend that, but it works and I've seen it implemented sometimes. The source should be configured as mono. I've heard good results with the Q-acoustics 3010 HiFi speakers, they have a threaded insert on the bottom, a wall mount kit is available from the manufacturer, and they have a nice look. I never saw an active speaker setup in a shop. It probably won't work. Just think about all the expensive rugged shielded signal wire, all the interference from HVAC motors etc.
Be aware that there are electrical code regulations about any permanent installation in a public venue. You can't just use any random speaker wire, as example. It's nothing complex really, just read your local code before doing the work, or ask a licensed electrician to put the wire in place, or figure a way to declare the system as portable/temporary.
On very small shops, the amp and the speakers are common home-theater units. I don't recomend that, but it works and I've seen it implemented sometimes. The source should be configured as mono. I've heard good results with the Q-acoustics 3010 HiFi speakers, they have a threaded insert on the bottom, a wall mount kit is available from the manufacturer, and they have a nice look. I never saw an active speaker setup in a shop. It probably won't work. Just think about all the expensive rugged shielded signal wire, all the interference from HVAC motors etc.
Be aware that there are electrical code regulations about any permanent installation in a public venue. You can't just use any random speaker wire, as example. It's nothing complex really, just read your local code before doing the work, or ask a licensed electrician to put the wire in place, or figure a way to declare the system as portable/temporary.
The in-depth replies above will give you a lot to think about.
Simpler questions from me, though:
- what's the budget?
- who will be operating it?
Active speakers are pretty much indestructable these days. There's enough DSP, temperature sensing etc to make it so. The good ones (look at Yamaha DXR for a start) are expensive, though.
I suspect you want something cheap, or they would've hired a consultant.
In that case, I'd get a mono mixer-amp that'll do an honest 400w into 4ohm, and a pair of half-decent 12" tops, and call it good.
Chris
Simpler questions from me, though:
- what's the budget?
- who will be operating it?
Active speakers are pretty much indestructable these days. There's enough DSP, temperature sensing etc to make it so. The good ones (look at Yamaha DXR for a start) are expensive, though.
I suspect you want something cheap, or they would've hired a consultant.
In that case, I'd get a mono mixer-amp that'll do an honest 400w into 4ohm, and a pair of half-decent 12" tops, and call it good.
Chris
Thanks for the replies, this has given me lots to think about.
In response to room size I am currently waiting on dimensions, and the ceiling is rather high in both rooms which doesn't allow ceiling speakers (also due to the fact there are no safe points to secure the speakers.
I don't think there are power sockets on the walls either, which makes having tr speakers as passive a more cost friendly option.
The main use of these speakers are to play background music but also have the use of the microphone for staff members to make announcements throughout dinner times so it is key that everyone can hear the speakers.
I was thinking too will there need to be a dead space for the microphone to be used in to reduce feedback?
There are 2 rooms and I have been told about $3000 US for each room so have money to play around with.
A consultant was brought in to price up doing it professionally however they quoted over $10,000 for each dining hall.
The speakers would be securely attached to the wall as well with safety chains as well as solid metal beams supporting them and this wouldn't be done by me as this was a key issue I raised with the implications if a speaker did fall off the wall.
I'm guessing 10" or 12" full range 2 speaker system may be enough for this use, aslong as they are high enough and powerful enough? Maybe 300-400W?
And I was thinking powered mixers as they are easy enough for the staff onsite to use as they aren't exactly the most speaker savvy people and would just like to turn it on and not have to worry about fiddling with controls etc.
Thanks again
In response to room size I am currently waiting on dimensions, and the ceiling is rather high in both rooms which doesn't allow ceiling speakers (also due to the fact there are no safe points to secure the speakers.
I don't think there are power sockets on the walls either, which makes having tr speakers as passive a more cost friendly option.
The main use of these speakers are to play background music but also have the use of the microphone for staff members to make announcements throughout dinner times so it is key that everyone can hear the speakers.
I was thinking too will there need to be a dead space for the microphone to be used in to reduce feedback?
There are 2 rooms and I have been told about $3000 US for each room so have money to play around with.
A consultant was brought in to price up doing it professionally however they quoted over $10,000 for each dining hall.
The speakers would be securely attached to the wall as well with safety chains as well as solid metal beams supporting them and this wouldn't be done by me as this was a key issue I raised with the implications if a speaker did fall off the wall.
I'm guessing 10" or 12" full range 2 speaker system may be enough for this use, aslong as they are high enough and powerful enough? Maybe 300-400W?
And I was thinking powered mixers as they are easy enough for the staff onsite to use as they aren't exactly the most speaker savvy people and would just like to turn it on and not have to worry about fiddling with controls etc.
Thanks again
I'd try and find something like the old mixer-amps from the 1980s. I still have one, and use it when this sort of gig is needed. There's 6 inputs on the front, with volume, bass, and treble controls, plus a reverb button. They feed to the master section, which has a reverb control and master volume.
Sources go into the front, speaker-level outputs on the back.
Modern versions may be available, but anything that looks like a mixing desk will likely put people off. People like volume controls and clear labels.
Connect up a couple of 12" full-range cabs and you're set. If it's gonna see some stick, I'd aim for some fairly nice cabs. I had some DAS Audio RF12s for a while, and they were rather good. Took a lot of power cleanly.
Chris
Sources go into the front, speaker-level outputs on the back.
Modern versions may be available, but anything that looks like a mixing desk will likely put people off. People like volume controls and clear labels.
Connect up a couple of 12" full-range cabs and you're set. If it's gonna see some stick, I'd aim for some fairly nice cabs. I had some DAS Audio RF12s for a while, and they were rather good. Took a lot of power cleanly.
Chris
If the main use of the speakers is voice and background music, power is not a issue. The 250-seats conference room stereo PA system I installed about 10 years ago has only 100W for each channel. The speakers are the column type, with four 6-inches drivers each. There are 4 of them: 2 on the back wall at the sides of the screen, and 2 at the middle of the room, hanging on the walls. There are also 2 ceiling speakers to cure a dead spot near the center of the room. I was recently called to revamp the A/V system and the projector has been replaced, but no change was asked for to the audio system, they liked it as it is. I believe that they never ever touched the audio mixer controls. The key is to build a simple to operate system that always works the same way. Of course any installation may have different requirements.
I gave most of my general advice earlier, and I think the details are going to be significant beyond that. You're talking about doing a PA install for $6000, where a consultant quoted a $20,000 solution. If you think they were trying to rip the camp off, get another consultant. If you're just hoping to do it for far less than a professional, you're going to have to be very clever to get a good result, and that will involve paying attention to a lot of details that haven't come into this discussion.
Keep in mind that distributed systems like commercial installs don't have to be ceiling mount. They can be mounted on walls or columns, and that kind of 70V or 100V type system with many speakers at low volume throughout the dining halls may be your best solution.
You may also want to consider separating the background music system from the PA. It's not difficult to combine them, but if you separate them, you never have to worry about feedback in your music system. It could end up being simpler and better to have two different systems.
If a distributed system won't work given the details of your site, I would suggest if the ceiling is very high, to use that to your advantage because as I mentioned before, it is hard to achieve even coverage when PA speakers at one end of the room at low height. They'll be too loud for those nearby and not loud enough in the back.
If you mount speakers high, you can make use of both their horizontal and vertical pattern. To do that best, you need speakers that have even vertical off-axis coverage. Coaxial speakers do that best. Speakers that the horn above a woofer will typically have poor vertical off-axis coverage.
If you have no choice but to mount them low, consider the CBT developed by Keele. JBL has a product line based on that, and they show very even horizontal off-axis coverage with a narrow vertical pattern. They almost certainly work better than a typical straight column/line array.
If your sound comes from only one end of the room, you'll want to pay close attention to coverage patterns and keep as much stray sound from spraying on to reflective surfaces like parallel side walls. Again, the details of the room size, shape, and materials becomes important.
Keep in mind that distributed systems like commercial installs don't have to be ceiling mount. They can be mounted on walls or columns, and that kind of 70V or 100V type system with many speakers at low volume throughout the dining halls may be your best solution.
You may also want to consider separating the background music system from the PA. It's not difficult to combine them, but if you separate them, you never have to worry about feedback in your music system. It could end up being simpler and better to have two different systems.
If a distributed system won't work given the details of your site, I would suggest if the ceiling is very high, to use that to your advantage because as I mentioned before, it is hard to achieve even coverage when PA speakers at one end of the room at low height. They'll be too loud for those nearby and not loud enough in the back.
If you mount speakers high, you can make use of both their horizontal and vertical pattern. To do that best, you need speakers that have even vertical off-axis coverage. Coaxial speakers do that best. Speakers that the horn above a woofer will typically have poor vertical off-axis coverage.
If you have no choice but to mount them low, consider the CBT developed by Keele. JBL has a product line based on that, and they show very even horizontal off-axis coverage with a narrow vertical pattern. They almost certainly work better than a typical straight column/line array.
If your sound comes from only one end of the room, you'll want to pay close attention to coverage patterns and keep as much stray sound from spraying on to reflective surfaces like parallel side walls. Again, the details of the room size, shape, and materials becomes important.
This is my current favorite package system.
STAGEPAS 400i/ 600i | PA Systems | Products | Yamaha
The 400 is less than $700.00 To do a camp dining hall should be well under $3,000.00 for both.
As to a handheld wireless microphone R300-HDHandheld System - PL22 Dynamic Microphone by Electro-Voice
So 2 stagepass400i's and TWO of the hand held wireless microphones will cost just a bit under $2,000.00 without the need to run much cable.
Use both receivers and keep one microphone as a spare.
(If you have trouble finding the gear affordably PM me.)
STAGEPAS 400i/ 600i | PA Systems | Products | Yamaha
The 400 is less than $700.00 To do a camp dining hall should be well under $3,000.00 for both.
As to a handheld wireless microphone R300-HDHandheld System - PL22 Dynamic Microphone by Electro-Voice
So 2 stagepass400i's and TWO of the hand held wireless microphones will cost just a bit under $2,000.00 without the need to run much cable.
Use both receivers and keep one microphone as a spare.
(If you have trouble finding the gear affordably PM me.)
A rough size for the rooms would really help to get a sense of what would work best. With 6000€ to burn just on background music and voice announcement, that's probably a kind of posh setup too ?
I'd lean towards multiple smaller speakers rather than a pair of 10" or even 8". More uniform coverage, easier to keep discreet, less of a PA look. And 4" or 5" are all that's needed for background music and voice.
If you have one system per room, you probably don't need a 70/100v system, the cable lengths won't be that long. The yamaha power mixers are pretty nice. Some models have an anti feedback features which is quite handy. Add 4 or 6 small columns and you're good.
For bluetooth, just get a small ad hoc receiver, integrated solutions in mixers often aren't that good.
And don't buy a wireless mic under 300$ (real minimum). A bad mic is a pain... Keep it to established brands too (Shure, Sennheiser, AKG, Audio Technica or E/V for example). Consider also the ease of recharging your mic if the staff isn't that proficient with audio. Nothing worse than having the sound cutting off during a speech. Keep a wired solution as backup (a cheap E/V n/d267a will do).
Otherwise, the stagepas package is very versatile and could be put to use easily in many applications later on. So that's a big plus
I'd lean towards multiple smaller speakers rather than a pair of 10" or even 8". More uniform coverage, easier to keep discreet, less of a PA look. And 4" or 5" are all that's needed for background music and voice.
If you have one system per room, you probably don't need a 70/100v system, the cable lengths won't be that long. The yamaha power mixers are pretty nice. Some models have an anti feedback features which is quite handy. Add 4 or 6 small columns and you're good.
For bluetooth, just get a small ad hoc receiver, integrated solutions in mixers often aren't that good.
And don't buy a wireless mic under 300$ (real minimum). A bad mic is a pain... Keep it to established brands too (Shure, Sennheiser, AKG, Audio Technica or E/V for example). Consider also the ease of recharging your mic if the staff isn't that proficient with audio. Nothing worse than having the sound cutting off during a speech. Keep a wired solution as backup (a cheap E/V n/d267a will do).
Otherwise, the stagepas package is very versatile and could be put to use easily in many applications later on. So that's a big plus
The reason for 70/100V systems is to allow many speakers per amplifier channel with simplified wiring. You don't want to wire more than two 8 Ohm speakers per channel on an amp that needs at minimum of 4 Ohms. So if you had a typical 2-channel pro-audio power amp, you might be limited by impedance to a total of 4 speakers. You could add more amplifier channels (4 channel amps) or more amplifiers, but that gets expensive and you end up with more power per channel than you really need. There are also ways to wire parallel/series to add more speakers while keeping the minimum impedance, but really if you want to run 16 or 20 small speakers as is common in many restaurant/shop installs, it's far easier to use an amp designed for that. 70/100V amps are intended to have lots of small, low-power speakers per channel. So it's not a problem to wire anywhere from 1 to 8 or more speakers per channel, and you don't have to worry about the impedance. As long as the amp channel has enough power to drive everything you connect to it loud enough for you, it will work. That's why one would use a 70/100V "commercial" amp in lieu of a pro-audio PA amp.
You also get less line loss, for long cable runs with small cable. That's very important when you're wiring an airport terminal or a shopping mall, but in the case of a dining hall or restaurant, its still meaningful in that you can make a 150' cable run with thin wire that's easy to route. With a PA amp, you'd want to use heavy-gauge cable to make a run that long to avoid excess loss. At 4 Ohms (two speakers per channel), you'd lose half your power going 150' with 18 ga wire. To minimize losses, you'd need to use 8 ga wire which is as thick as some jumper cables. But if you have shorter speaker distances, and 1 speaker per channel (8 Ohms), then you can use normal (14 or 16 ga) speaker wire and it's not an issue.
So you see the two reasons to use "commercial" style amps/speakers (both the amps and speakers are unique because they have step-up/step-down transformers). These systems are also referred to as "constant voltage speaker systems" or "high-voltage audio distribution systems," or by the voltages used (70V or 100V).
It's up to you to decide whether any of that applies to your install or if you're better off with a portable PA type system. None of us would know better without studying the details.
You also get less line loss, for long cable runs with small cable. That's very important when you're wiring an airport terminal or a shopping mall, but in the case of a dining hall or restaurant, its still meaningful in that you can make a 150' cable run with thin wire that's easy to route. With a PA amp, you'd want to use heavy-gauge cable to make a run that long to avoid excess loss. At 4 Ohms (two speakers per channel), you'd lose half your power going 150' with 18 ga wire. To minimize losses, you'd need to use 8 ga wire which is as thick as some jumper cables. But if you have shorter speaker distances, and 1 speaker per channel (8 Ohms), then you can use normal (14 or 16 ga) speaker wire and it's not an issue.
So you see the two reasons to use "commercial" style amps/speakers (both the amps and speakers are unique because they have step-up/step-down transformers). These systems are also referred to as "constant voltage speaker systems" or "high-voltage audio distribution systems," or by the voltages used (70V or 100V).
It's up to you to decide whether any of that applies to your install or if you're better off with a portable PA type system. None of us would know better without studying the details.
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They cost more only because of the transformer, which adds a few dollars at most, but they can have still higher price because of the way pricing works for that market. Many buyers are able to negotiate substantial volume discounts because they're contractors on jobs installing hundreds of speakers. For the do-it-yourself buyer, they'll need to find a distributor that will discount them. It may not be as easy for a consumer as getting it at "Guitar Center", but it's not hard if you do a little searching.
The OP mentioned their ceilings were too high for ceiling speakers. In that case, there are pendant speakers. There's also in-wall speakers, and surface mount (wall bracket) speakers. There's really no indoor or outdoor space for which there isn't a product.
I agree that a portable PA system is more flexible, and earlier I suggested because the dining halls' acoustics are certain to be poor, it would be a big advantage to be able to move the PA outside (at summer camp). But how practical this is for this job, I don't know. For a portable/temporary PA, powered speakers are better. In my mind, the StagePas systems are all too small for 200 people, but they are very easy to move around.
The OP mentioned their ceilings were too high for ceiling speakers. In that case, there are pendant speakers. There's also in-wall speakers, and surface mount (wall bracket) speakers. There's really no indoor or outdoor space for which there isn't a product.
I agree that a portable PA system is more flexible, and earlier I suggested because the dining halls' acoustics are certain to be poor, it would be a big advantage to be able to move the PA outside (at summer camp). But how practical this is for this job, I don't know. For a portable/temporary PA, powered speakers are better. In my mind, the StagePas systems are all too small for 200 people, but they are very easy to move around.
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